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Old 15-04-2022, 14:59   #16
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Re: Check my schematic please. New Victron system on Leopard Catamaran.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingScot View Post
I have made some radical changes to the design. Only one Multiplus, upgraded the alternators, added an efficient watermaker and aircons. Large wires, large bus bars, etc. to try and keep the efficiency up. Of course the goal is to have aircon in our cabin at night during those sticky times. One thing might change and that's the alternators.

Parts have been ordered. Now the waiting game begins.

Highly recommend Andre @Gulf Nautical / The Yacht Rigger in St. Pete FL.

https://1drv.ms/b/s!AvqJ-T1Ji55ziPgM...U6Ryg?e=Xfg7Cd
Great design. Looking forward to real life feedback on the LG bifacials on a cat. Love my Longli bifacials, they are a game changer. Want to get 2 panels for the roof and the LG bifacials fits better from the dimensions and available here in Canary Islands.

Some feedback:
You cannot use the battery protect on motors like windlass and electric winches, their 3-5x times higher startup current and the reverse current when stopping will instantly kill the bp220. Here you need mechanical relays, best latching ones.
What you can alternatively do is interrupt the remote functions, in LCV or Desaster disconnect by bms I just interrupt the connection of the windlass remote box (windlass works but remote is disabled)…which I can bypass with a manual switch. I consider the windlass life important equipment and wanna have the choice to run the LifePo4 low and destroy it before destroying the boat. Additionally I have a selection switch and can switch over the windlass to the starter battery.

Alternators/argofet:
I would leave the argofet away and charge the LifePo4 directly from the high power alternators and charge the starter with a small dc-to-dc charger from the LifePo4. Additionally I added each starter a small 50W flexible solar panel on top of the outside engine hatch that charges the lead starter, they need 1-3A trickle charge anyhow most of the time, the dc-To-dc charger is mostly jobless…you could also leave it away, I have it for security reasons and had two lying around anyhow after changing to external regulators on my Mitsubishi 115A alternators. Simpler and more effective, you loose 0.3V due to the argofet….the alternator gets switched of by the bms via cutting the field current.

A hint: you can use your legacy xantrex inverter as fake grid AC input on the Victron Multiplus and via power assist function boost the Multiplus inverter by the additional 1000W from the xantrex so you have 1000W+2400W=3400W. I am boosting it with a 3,5kw cheap 350Euro Hf inverter, power assist to 10A so the Hf delivers the 2400W base load as „fake 10A grid“ and the Victron adds 2400W + surge loads=4800W continuous+surge loads Victron. Could go up to 16A fake grid as Multiplus supports up to 16A grid and then adds its inverter power via power assist function but don’t need to. Like this you can run your electric galley cooktop and convection oven in parallel if needed without spending huge cash amounts on a 2nd Multiplus.
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Old 15-04-2022, 15:55   #17
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Boat: R&C Leopard 40
Posts: 635
Re: Check my schematic please. New Victron system on Leopard Catamaran.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRivet View Post
Great design. Looking forward to real life feedback on the LG bifacials on a cat. Love my Longli bifacials, they are a game changer. Want to get 2 panels for the roof and the LG bifacials fits better from the dimensions and available here in Canary Islands.

Some feedback:
You cannot use the battery protect on motors like windlass and electric winches, their 3-5x times higher startup current and the reverse current when stopping will instantly kill the bp220. Here you need mechanical relays, best latching ones.
What you can alternatively do is interrupt the remote functions, in LCV or Desaster disconnect by bms I just interrupt the connection of the windlass remote box (windlass works but remote is disabled)…which I can bypass with a manual switch. I consider the windlass life important equipment and wanna have the choice to run the LifePo4 low and destroy it before destroying the boat. Additionally I have a selection switch and can switch over the windlass to the starter battery.

Alternators/argofet:
I would leave the argofet away and charge the LifePo4 directly from the high power alternators and charge the starter with a small dc-to-dc charger from the LifePo4. Additionally I added each starter a small 50W flexible solar panel on top of the outside engine hatch that charges the lead starter, they need 1-3A trickle charge anyhow most of the time, the dc-To-dc charger is mostly jobless…you could also leave it away, I have it for security reasons and had two lying around anyhow after changing to external regulators on my Mitsubishi 115A alternators. Simpler and more effective, you loose 0.3V due to the argofet….the alternator gets switched of by the bms via cutting the field current.

A hint: you can use your legacy xantrex inverter as fake grid AC input on the Victron Multiplus and via power assist function boost the Multiplus inverter by the additional 1000W from the xantrex so you have 1000W+2400W=3400W. I am boosting it with a 3,5kw cheap 350Euro Hf inverter, power assist to 10A so the Hf delivers the 2400W base load as „fake 10A grid“ and the Victron adds 2400W + surge loads=4800W continuous+surge loads Victron. Could go up to 16A fake grid as Multiplus supports up to 16A grid and then adds its inverter power via power assist function but don’t need to. Like this you can run your electric galley cooktop and convection oven in parallel if needed without spending huge cash amounts on a 2nd Multiplus.
Thank you for your feedback.

Yeah, I'm excited about the LG Bifacials too. The current LG NeonR 360wp have hit over 420w each many times. I can only imagine what these will peak at. I'm guessing 2800-3000wp for the 5 of them.

The SBP220 is rated for 600A peak, so I don't think that is a concern for killing it. Let's talk reverse currents. This is the first time I have heard of this as a concern from windlass/power winch.
I don't really feel the need to have an SBP here at all as I neither of those items run continously or more than a couple minutes. Breakers kept off unless sailing or anchoring. Our house bank will be large and I am constantly aware of S.O.C. even on the current setup.

Victron specs the Argofet at less than 0.2v drop at low currents and average 0.1v at higher currents. Small either way and the Wakespeed will compensate so a not a reason to not use them IMO.

Interesting idea about using the old inverter. I haven't thought about that.
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Old 15-04-2022, 20:57   #18
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Re: Check my schematic please. New Victron system on Leopard Catamaran.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingScot View Post
Thank you for your feedback.

Yeah, I'm excited about the LG Bifacials too. The current LG NeonR 360wp have hit over 420w each many times. I can only imagine what these will peak at. I'm guessing 2800-3000wp for the 5 of them.

The SBP220 is rated for 600A peak, so I don't think that is a concern for killing it. Let's talk reverse currents. This is the first time I have heard of this as a concern from windlass/power winch.
I don't really feel the need to have an SBP here at all as I neither of those items run continously or more than a couple minutes. Breakers kept off unless sailing or anchoring. Our house bank will be large and I am constantly aware of S.O.C. even on the current setup.

Victron specs the Argofet at less than 0.2v drop at low currents and average 0.1v at higher currents. Small either way and the Wakespeed will compensate so a not a reason to not use them IMO.

Interesting idea about using the old inverter. I haven't thought about that.
The 360Wp lg neon are great, had them on my previous mono.
Got Longli bifacials because measurements fitted better and they were a steal, 600Euro for 4 and sold one for 300 as only 3 fitting, work very well too….rated 365W and I regularly see 440W. 3 are enough that my 840AH house is mostly full before noon…
You have so much solar and will hardly ever need your alternators for charging. don‘t get why you switched to ridiculously expensive wakespeed regulators and huge alternators. Would try your lot solar with just standard alternator and make them safe with a dc-to-dc charger. Get experience and really check if you need them…it’s not only the cost, its also installation and often belt wear issues…
And if you really need the big ones just get right away a alternator and regulator combo, the smaller balmar with regulator is the price of a ws 500 alone and more you definitely don‘t need. My solution for the really seldom days where a huge bank and lot solar is not enough at anchor, I have a little Honda eu22i Gen with external range extender tank, connect it to shorepower inlet and charge via Multiplus 120A charger. Much quieter, cheaper, simpler and runs for hours with just 1,5l gas. Alternator charging mostly happen on long passage motor sailing but only 1 engine and for hours so 35A is ok as the bank is full after 4-5h anyhow as solar always delivers a bit additional even on very cloudy days…
That’s reality if you are in the barefoot sailing regions. I run full electric galley, a 600W stereo almost permanent and several gadgets. Looking at the SOC but actually have approx 80% of time more solar power then I can consume…

Regarding SBP220 that’s what’s in your schematic. In the manual it’s written don‘t use it on big inverters as inrush current destroys it and I got that from others too not to use on windlass and big power winches from sailors they know Victron products well. Bp can only work in one direction and will be very easy killed if current runs the other direction.
…if you wanna try, go ahead and test it , happy to hear results…and we’ll if your anchor gets stuck, it’s easily ends up in battling 45-60min with heavy windlass use and not just minutes…Murphy is always there and hits you when you don‘t have time to check your SOC permanently, manual control is not enough
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Old 16-04-2022, 07:47   #19
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Boat: R&C Leopard 40
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Re: Check my schematic please. New Victron system on Leopard Catamaran.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRivet View Post
The 360Wp lg neon are great, had them on my previous mono.
Got Longli bifacials because measurements fitted better and they were a steal, 600Euro for 4 and sold one for 300 as only 3 fitting, work very well too….rated 365W and I regularly see 440W. 3 are enough that my 840AH house is mostly full before noon…
You have so much solar and will hardly ever need your alternators for charging. don‘t get why you switched to ridiculously expensive wakespeed regulators and huge alternators. Would try your lot solar with just standard alternator and make them safe with a dc-to-dc charger. Get experience and really check if you need them…it’s not only the cost, its also installation and often belt wear issues…
And if you really need the big ones just get right away a alternator and regulator combo, the smaller balmar with regulator is the price of a ws 500 alone and more you definitely don‘t need. My solution for the really seldom days where a huge bank and lot solar is not enough at anchor, I have a little Honda eu22i Gen with external range extender tank, connect it to shorepower inlet and charge via Multiplus 120A charger. Much quieter, cheaper, simpler and runs for hours with just 1,5l gas. Alternator charging mostly happen on long passage motor sailing but only 1 engine and for hours so 35A is ok as the bank is full after 4-5h anyhow as solar always delivers a bit additional even on very cloudy days…
That’s reality if you are in the barefoot sailing regions. I run full electric galley, a 600W stereo almost permanent and several gadgets. Looking at the SOC but actually have approx 80% of time more solar power then I can consume…

Regarding SBP220 that’s what’s in your schematic. In the manual it’s written don‘t use it on big inverters as inrush current destroys it and I got that from others too not to use on windlass and big power winches from sailors they know Victron products well. Bp can only work in one direction and will be very easy killed if current runs the other direction.
…if you wanna try, go ahead and test it , happy to hear results…and we’ll if your anchor gets stuck, it’s easily ends up in battling 45-60min with heavy windlass use and not just minutes…Murphy is always there and hits you when you don‘t have time to check your SOC permanently, manual control is not enough

We just consume a lot of power and water. Swapping to a Spectra CHE330 to help with the power consumption on the water making side. My wife likes to cook and we tend to use the electric parts of our galley more than the propane side.

I was initially hesitant to do the alternator upgrade route. Some things that changed my mind:
1. Our two new Yanmar 3YM30AE come with K6 pulleys (6 rib serpentine). These are rated to over 300 amps from an alternator. I don't foresee any belt problems from pulling half that.
2. The Wakespeeds talk directly through CANbus with Victron Lynx BMS for charging but also to stop charging. They just are better than the current alternatives for alternator control. Yes, they cost more. This is an easy and clean solution to protecting the alternators during BMS shutdown.
3. We have a Honda 2.2k. I love these little Hondas. As quiet as they are they aren't silent. The wife dislikes it pretty much anytime. You can't run it while sailing. We will be keeping it to use when appropriate.
4. I'm going to be rewiring the engine room regardless of upgraded alternators or not, so I decided to just go all the way with the upgrade.
5. The price of this refit in parts/shipping alone is already a lot of money. I don't want to add it up but I'm sure $75K+. The $5k for alternators/controllers/wiring is tolerable.

The SBP can’t be used with anything with a capacitor. From the manual "4. The short circuit protection of the SBP will be activated if you try to
directly connect loads with capacitors on their input (eg inverters)." I'm just trying to wrap my head around the reverse currents from a power winch (size 46) or windlass (1500w). The manual states: "E8: Reverse current
Reverse current protection is activated in the event that reverse current flow is detected
CAUTION: SBP is designed to allow or prevent current flow from IN to OUT terminals ONLY. Reverse current flow is strictly forbidden and may permanently damage the SBP.
💡💡 1- Check that the SBP installation orientation is correct - current flow must be from IN to OUT (refer to example wiring diagrams)
2- Confirm that no charging sources are inadvertently connected to the SBP OUT terminal/circuit
3- If the SBP is used to disconnect a charge source, confirm that no loads are inadvertently connected to the SBP IN terminal/circuit has reverse current protection and that reverse currents can damage the device. "

I can't find anything about small amounts when a winch or windlass stops causing damage.

Long windlass usage would almost always be accompanied by engines/alternators running thus no worries about S.O.C.
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