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Old 09-01-2022, 17:12   #16
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Re: Pacific Puddle Jump and the Pacific Posse

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Originally Posted by double u View Post
...the term "puddle jump" seems to show an attitude towards ocean sailing, that I don't like in the least...
(to quote James Wharram: "Grey people go everywhere & spoil everything!")
Retired Naval Officer that did a hell of a lot of puddle jumping in the Pacific.
Don't mind the term at all.
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Old 09-01-2022, 17:20   #17
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Re: Pacific Puddle Jump and the Pacific Posse

I think that anyone who calls crossing the Pacific a Puddle Jump is unrealistic.
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Old 09-01-2022, 17:23   #18
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Re: Pacific Puddle Jump and the Pacific Posse

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So,, now the government is asking us to leave, we have exceeded the allowed 18 months to be a visitor here. But go where, we dont know, because most borders are still closed, and its cyclone season, so we may be forced to fly out, leaving the boat here for an unspecified amount of time, because the borders here are still closed.

...

Australia has a safe haven exemption that may apply to you: https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/travel-restrictions and contact for an agent that could help you: https://www.downunderrally.com/austr...er-information. Getting to Bundaberg from Vanuatu is a fairly short distance and you should be able to time it to stay safe.

New Zealand has an exemption if you plan to have over 50,000 NZD worth of work done for your boat, but is a slightly longer and more difficult voyage: https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/...aritime-sector

Safest is definitely to securely leave your boat for an unknown and likely extended period of time (hauled out preferred I expect) and fly to wherever your citizenships allow.
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Old 12-01-2022, 16:24   #19
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Re: Pacific Puddle Jump and the Pacific Posse

Here is the overview of the SOUTH PACIFIC POSSE
THIS IS THE INTRODUCTION https://youtu.be/c3zeL8XUsMo
Enjoy
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Old 12-01-2022, 17:17   #20
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Re: Pacific Puddle Jump and the Pacific Posse

The puddle jump i think is an extension of the baja ha ha. So if you were part of that, may encounter some of the same people. But the baja is a rally, the puddle jump isn't.

I'm in the Panama Posse now. Its really disorganized, with imho poor communication. For example, i asked about a net on SSB, and with 300 boats joined don't have one. They use a chat app that imo is terrible.

I don't have experience with the puddle jump, but i thinks its probably better of the two.

I think joining a group is a good idea, but probably only if its your first season. I disagree with the assessment that joining a group has any effect on if you socialize with yachties or locals. That is all determined by your personality. Plenty of cruisers in rallies get to port and disappear socializing with locals. And plenty that aren't in a group stay on thier yacht until others show up. Its all up to you. I
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Old 12-01-2022, 17:49   #21
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Re: Pacific Puddle Jump and the Pacific Posse

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I think joining a group is a good idea, but probably only if its your first season. I disagree with the assessment that joining a group has any effect on if you socialize with yachties or locals. That is all determined by your personality. Plenty of cruisers in rallies get to port and disappear socializing with locals. And plenty that aren't in a group stay on thier yacht until others show up. Its all up to you. I
_
Well, of course it is up to the individual... but my own observations, made over many years of cruising in the S Pacific, have shown that rally folks do tend to be more insular within their previously organized groups (cliques?) than folks who travel on their own. This has been personally observed both in exotic island destinations and in more cosmopolitan places like NZ and Oz where the "locals" are very much like us.

But I now realize that the PPJ isn't a rally with a group movement model, and it likely does not result in the kind of isolation that Ann and I were discussing. As a source of info and some special privileges it may be quite useful, especially to folks new to foreign destinations.

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Old 13-01-2022, 08:15   #22
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Re: Pacific Puddle Jump and the Pacific Posse

DoubleU and Stewie12, come on, did you lose your sense of humor or perspective. I can assure you no one who I have met takes the crossing lightly. It is usually the longest leg for circumnavigators and it treated as such.



Are you also upset by the term "Milk Run" which is a common name for the rest of the way through the S. Pacific to points west.


The PPJ is a fun label and if you knew how it came about you would understand the humor. The term was coined by the folks at Latitude 38 (west coast US cruisers and sailors magizine) as a fun title for what is a serious open water leg for circumnavigators. Because of the timing of the window for crossing from North or Central America it is a logical follow on to the annual migration from the US down the west coast of Mexico. Banderas Bay and and Panama are the two most common jumping off points for the crossing to French Polynesia.



Not sure if it should be called an event since everyone is on their own for the crossing, although many set up informal groups to stay in contact during the crossing.

There are a few meetups in Panama and Mexico to share information and to meet other people making the crossing. Tourism officials from Tahiti fly over to provide info and answer questions for the cruisers.


There is also one "event" in Tahiti which is a fun day of traditional Tahitian sports contests and entertainment between the cruisers and locals. Andy Turpin, who put it together years ago has done a great job working with Tahitian tourism officials to make it far easier for cruisers to enter the country, especially getting rid of the requirement that every person post a cash bond upon entry (which was refunded in local currency when departing) and access to duty free fuel.



French Polynesia is certainly problematic for getting into now but hopefully things will return to "normal" so many more can enjoy cruising the S. Pacific.
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Old 13-01-2022, 11:09   #23
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Re: Pacific Puddle Jump and the Pacific Posse

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Originally Posted by Stewie12 View Post
I think that anyone who calls crossing the Pacific a Puddle Jump is unrealistic.
It is a funny thing. I once sailed 2200 miles to Hawaii (and back) and someone dismissed it as only half an ocean. Maybe they were kidding but it kinda wounded my ego. Anything that helps others with "local knowledge" is always appreciated. I, for one, didn't realize these groups weren't about creating flotillas during ocean passages. That's a good misconception to squash.
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Old 14-01-2022, 10:51   #24
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Re: Pacific Puddle Jump and the Pacific Posse

...FFS...it's just a term. No different than the Atlantic being called "the POND".
Who cares?
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Old 14-01-2022, 11:42   #25
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Re: Pacific Puddle Jump and the Pacific Posse

We left southern California heading south about the same time the baja ha ha group left. It was the best time of year, but we didn't sign up with them. We didn't want to be on a schedule. One post mentioned the advantage of going with a group. We tried to buddy boat with friends of ours, that does not work. People have their own way of sailing. We liked to sail even if we were doing 2 knots. Many people want to motor if they are not doing 7 knots under sail. If we were having a good time we wanted to stay longer in an Anchorage. Also unless you have similar boats they all sail differently because some are faster others slower. Trying to stay together is difficult. You are also "stuck " with the same people and miss opportunity to meet others. If your not comfortable going on your own you should get more experience before you take off.
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Old 14-01-2022, 13:37   #26
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Re: Pacific Puddle Jump and the Pacific Posse

Thanks for all the opinions, but I am still hoping someone has useful information about the difference between the two organizations.

Anyone?
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Old 14-01-2022, 14:41   #27
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Re: Pacific Puddle Jump and the Pacific Posse

Used PPJ in 2015, found it helpful (especially with respect to dealing with the FP bureaucracy & getting duty free fuel) and very good at organizing training sessions for newbies on the North America side - but when it came to organizing a SSB net, that was pretty well totally dependent on the participants. Many boats will want join in, it just takes someone to act as the spark plug.

The PPJ is definitely not a rally.

I’d use them again….the duty free fuel itself was worth it.
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Old 14-01-2022, 14:49   #28
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Re: Pacific Puddle Jump and the Pacific Posse

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We left southern California heading south about the same time the baja ha ha group left. It was the best time of year, but we didn't sign up with them. We didn't want to be on a schedule. One post mentioned the advantage of going with a group. We tried to buddy boat with friends of ours, that does not work. People have their own way of sailing. We liked to sail even if we were doing 2 knots. Many people want to motor if they are not doing 7 knots under sail. If we were having a good time we wanted to stay longer in an Anchorage. Also unless you have similar boats they all sail differently because some are faster others slower. Trying to stay together is difficult. You are also "stuck " with the same people and miss opportunity to meet others. If your not comfortable going on your own you should get more experience before you take off.
LOL, don't tell that to SV Delos, they seem to have a successful pairing with Calico Skies as their buddy boat.
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Old 14-01-2022, 15:02   #29
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Re: Pacific Puddle Jump and the Pacific Posse

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Originally Posted by trimarannaga View Post
So, now the government is asking us to leave, we have exceeded the allowed 18 months to be a visitor here. But go where, we don't know, because most borders are still closed, and its cyclone season, so we may be forced to fly out, leaving the boat here for an unspecified amount of time, because the borders here are still closed..
I would advise boat owners not to fly out and leave your boat in a country where you do not hold citizenship or residency, as you may never see it again (unless you have the funds to ship it outta there!) There is no guarantee that they will let you fly back in to pick up your boat. If losing the boat would represent an unacceptable financial loss to you, then probably better to stay with the boat and keep going. NZ had a yacht refit visa program last year, but I am not sure if it is still running?
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Old 14-01-2022, 18:06   #30
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Re: Pacific Puddle Jump and the Pacific Posse

I am with those who generally shun rallies, and the reason is because at 35', our monohull is generally the slowest boat of the pack where the boats making up rallies commonly average in the low- to mid-40s length and are measurably faster. This puts us at a disadvantage for selected moorings/anchorages with spots already taken by the pack by the time we arrive, and it makes us the stragglers for clearing in procedures.

Second, you necessarily come and go with the pack--when it's time for the pack to leave, you leave. If you are not ready, too bad. We don't like sailing on that kind of schedule and pressure.

Third, and I'll echo others above, the packs are indeed insular and they tend to interact more with themselves rather than the locals of the countries they visit. One of the best parts of cruising is to get to know the way of life in different countries and to explore those features that appeal to you but may not necessarily appeal to the sailors in the pack.

Is there safety in numbers? Certainly. But if you end up in a mishap or somehow get stranded, it generally is possible to get to a place of safety and execute necessary repairs in spite of the pack. In an extreme case, your repairs may kick you out of the pack because they will have moved on while you are stuck with repairs.

In our case, we left Florida in January 2017 (5 years ago!) and have made it as far as Darwin, Australia, 16,430 miles. We have been in Australia for 3 years, but 2 of those years were because of Covid travel restrictions. Thankfully, Australia is a great place to be "stranded." At the end of each leg, there are always repairs to make to the boat, or upgrades that you think desirable, or there could be medical issues to deal with. It is nice to take our time to do what needs to be done, and take extra time to do the kind of visiting and sightseeing that we like.

We have considered rallies from time to time, and we have met others who have been in rallies. We have rejected them for the reasons above. And finally, it seems that the rally members seem to maximize their time sailing as fast as possible from point A to point B, and that's just not us. We like going slow, using sailing as a means to get somewhere and don't really care about the qualilty of sailing fast so much as the quality of sailing comfortably, maximizing the weather to our advantage, and visiting foreign lands. As others have said before me, sailing is simply the most expensive way to travel for free. It is the experience of seeing other countries that drives us, rather than focusing on the speed and the sailing of the boat.

With all that has been written above, you should be able to assess your own situation and see if your outlook about rallies coincides with your expected sailing and traveling experiences. Good luck on however you choose.

Eric
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