Is a FP 36ft cat a blue water or not

[Dan Morton]

Hi I’m new to cruise forum, I have sold my Roberts 27 and I am looking at buying a cruising cat and would love a Fountaine Pajot 42, but hard to find one for less than 300K. So considering a smaller boat smaller price, so could a 36 FP be OK in bad weather in blue water? Or would it be too uncomfortable, are the 36 ft ranked for blue water or not really.

Glad anyone’s opinion, especially anyone who has had both, thanks Dan.

[StuM]

The FP Mahe is rated CE Category "A".


"Category A – Ocean: covers largely self-sufficient boats designed for extended voyages with winds of over Beaufort Force 8 (over 40 knots), and significant wave heights above 13 feet, but excluding abnormal conditions such as hurricanes."

[barnakiel]

Do you mean Mahe?


In BAD WEATHER nothing is comfortable or safe. Displacement and size simply change the point beyond which your weather becomes bad weather.



Mahe is a small cat just like any other cat in the same category. They are all very comfortable boats and pleasure to sail in the tropics.


I would have zero regrets to sail one on the coconut milk run rtw.


As you noted, a slightly bigger thing may have some advantages, but in the end we all sail the boats we have.



b.

[Dan Morton]

Thanks good to know it’s class A

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by StuM

The FP Mahe is rated CE Category "A".


"Category A – Ocean: covers largely self-sufficient boats designed for extended voyages with winds of over Beaufort Force 8 (over 40 knots), and significant wave heights above 13 feet, but excluding abnormal conditions such as hurricanes."

The EU catagories are an interesting one. I wonder what my old Prout Snowgoose 35 would get if tested today. Regardless they've been all over the world.

I personally wouldn't hesitate to sail a 2010 Mahe 36 around even a little off the beaten path.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

The EU catagories are an interesting one. I wonder what my old Prout Snowgoose 35 would get if tested today. Regardless they've been all over the world.

I personally wouldn't hesitate to sail a 2010 Mahe 36 around even a little off the beaten path.

PLEASE note what I am commenting below is NOT meant as a critique of Mahe 36. My opinion on Mahe has already been expressed in a post earlier in the thread.


Re RCD and testing a Prout (or testing any other boat to obtain a CE mark).



Your Prout would get no CE mark - as it was built before the Directive (?) - and RCD is not a testing procedure. It is a red tape procedure of little value from the seaworthiness point of view.


What you are after are more likely
About - IACS


Before the EU invented its hilllarious RCD, good boats were designed and built to e.g. LLoyds standards. Also today some high quality boats are built to LLoyds (also hulls below 24m).



It is a longer read and well documented over the net. Google if you want to see what Class A is not.



Quote from wiki: "...However, since 18 January 2017, the latest version of the Recreational Craft Directive 2013/53/EU became applicable, changes are as follows: Design categories: the geographical description (ocean, coast,...) has been removed.
Design category A: the term "largely self-sufficient" has been removed. the words: "excluding abnormal conditions, such as storm, violent storm, hurricane, tornado and extreme sea conditions or rogue waves" have been added...."


If a boat meant for open water no limits sailing needs NOT to be built to withstand winds in excess of 40 knots, then the ship called EU, together with its many RCDs is not meant to float about for much longer.


As a yardstick of seaworthiness and built quality, forget Class A designation.


barnakiel

[StuM]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Quote from wiki: "...However, since 18 January 2017, the latest version of the Recreational Craft Directive 2013/53/EU became applicable, changes are as follows: Design categories: the geographical description (ocean, coast,...) has been removed.
Design category A: the term "largely self-sufficient" has been removed. the words: "excluding abnormal conditions, such as storm, violent storm, hurricane, tornado and extreme sea conditions or rogue waves" have been added...."

If a boat meant for open water no limits sailing needs NOT to be built to withstand winds in excess of 40 knots, then the ship called EU, together with its many RCDs is not meant to float about for much longer.

How does the highlighted addition say that it doesn't have to be built to withstand winds in excess of 40 knots?



The actual wording is:
A recreational craft given design category A is considered to be designed for winds that may exceed wind force 8 (Beaufort scale) and significant wave height of 4 m and above but excluding abnormal conditions, such as storm, violent storm, hurricane, tornado and extreme sea conditions or rogue waves.

IWO designed for winds up to and includaing Beaufort Force 9 Strong Gale (i.e. sustained wind speeds of 41-47 knots). Note the "sustained". Given that gusts are generally reckoned to be up to 40% stronger than sustained winds (see for example, the Australian Bureau of Meterorology), that would make it built to withstand gusts to 65 knots.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by StuM

How does the highlighted addition say that it doesn't have to be built to withstand winds in excess of 40 knots?



The actual wording is:


A recreational craft given design category A is considered to be designed for winds that may exceed wind force 8 (Beaufort scale) and significant wave height of 4 m and above but excluding abnormal conditions, such as storm, violent storm, hurricane, tornado and extreme sea conditions or rogue waves.


(...)

I stand corrected.


It is 48 knots.



The highest CE category, meant for open water unlimited voyages, but somehow not necessarily designed to outlast a storm.


RCD is designed to screen mass market boat-builders from lawsuits NOT to give us safe, well designed, well built and seaworthy boats.


If you are in any doubt grab a copy of LLoyds standards and read. Then read RCD. See the differences?


E.g. " ... Each of these classifications requires that a full set of plans be submitted for review and approval, and a surveyor is present during most of the construction process as well as for the sea trials. All material used in the boat is tested and, in the case of aluminum or steel yachts, each plate must have a society approval stamp and each welder must pass rigorous tests. During construction, samples of random welds will be X-rayed and, if a weld does not meet society approval, the plate is removed and a replacement is done correctly. For fiberglass yachts, the surveyor takes careful note of material storage methods, lay-up procedures, curing times, and then performs hardness tests on sample sections.... " etc etc full 400+ plus pages of how to create a seaworthy craft.



If RCD were as good a yardstick as Lloyds, there would be far fewer Class A boats losing their masts, rudders, keels and crews on ocean passages.


barnakiel

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

As a yardstick of seaworthiness and built quality, forget Class A designation.

Absolutely. The only way it's useful is that you really wouldn't want to be out of sight of land in anything that wasn't A, but other than that it's no recommendation

[StuM]

You could also say:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

If RCD were as good a yardstick as Lloyds, there would be far fewer Class A boats losing their masts, rudders, keels and crews on ocean passages.
barnakiel

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by StuM

The FP Mahe is rated CE Category "A".


"Category A – Ocean: covers largely self-sufficient boats designed for extended voyages with winds of over Beaufort Force 8 (over 40 knots), and significant wave heights above 13 feet, but excluding abnormal conditions such as hurricanes."

Rated by whom?

[Arenaria]

Originally Posted by Dan Morton

Hi I’m new to cruise forum, I have sold my Roberts 27 and I am looking at buying a cruising cat and would love a Fountaine Pajot 42, but hard to find one for less than 300K. So considering a smaller boat smaller price, so could a 36 FP be OK in bad weather in blue water? Or would it be too uncomfortable, are the 36 ft ranked for blue water or not really.

Glad anyone’s opinion, especially anyone who has had both, thanks Dan.

Dan--
We've sailed our Mahe 36 for 7 years all coastal including the ICW in both directions. She is capable of handling a lot of weather but we generally limit our cruising to Force 5 / 3 ft seas or less. Once again the boat will handle a lot more than the crew but in coastal areas where the wave period is short she will bounce quite a good deal. No reason not to consider one as I understand the come across to the Caribbean on their own bottoms. Our previous boat was a Seaward 26 and certainly this is much more comfortable in every direction.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by StuM

You could also say: If RCD were as good a yardstick as Lloyds, there would be far fewer Class A boats losing their masts, rudders, keels and crews on ocean passages.

Exactly.


You re-worded my concept and now it is much clearer, and much more exact!


Today it is not easy to express any strong idea without offending someone.



Thank you,

barnakiel

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Jdege

Rated by whom?

The manufacturers..

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Dan Morton

Hi I’m new to cruise forum, I have sold my Roberts 27 and I am looking at buying a cruising cat and would love a Fountaine Pajot 42, but hard to find one for less than 300K. So considering a smaller boat smaller price, so could a 36 FP be OK in bad weather in blue water? Or would it be too uncomfortable, are the 36 ft ranked for blue water or not really.

Glad anyone’s opinion, especially anyone who has had both, thanks Dan.

If you're looking for a blue water cat, less than $300 grand, check this out https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...a-440-3688977/. For blue water capability, this one will kick the snot out of any FP ever made and probably sail rings around most of them. And it's 44' (even better unless you're planning on a marina berth)