AUS: Heterosexual rape and abuse alleged with Crewbay and Find-a-Crew

[Sailor Sailor]

Originally Posted by davil

We have found in practice calling criminals mentally ill is a disservice to those suffering mental illness and a way to escape personal and legal consequences.

Roughly half the population in prison are or would be diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder. Essentially, criminality is part of the diagnosis. Recognizing that is not disservice to those who suffer from other types of mental illness.

Antisocial Personality Disorder is not a legal defense; that does not mean they would be found not guilty by reason of insanity. They know damn well what they are doing. They just disregard the rights, feelings or concerns of their victims.

Rape is the perfect manifestation of their disorder.

These are not people who are unfriendly or don't socialize. In fact, quite the opposite, they are the charming conman or conwoman using people for their own ends, without regard to the victim's well-being. They are "Antisocial" because of their disregard for their fellow human beings, not because they do not interact with other people.

[Chotu]

Oddly, it can work both ways. I took on crew for a delivery that I was making. She was young. She was marginally attractive. I was married (to an incredibly beautiful woman). I didn’t really want anything to do with the crew except to get help on watches. I just wanted crew. But she didn’t understand that. Instead of getting up for watch she would sleep in all day and drink all night and expected that it was some kind of relationship in exchange for a free boat trip. Even though I said I was married and gave no indication of needing anything other than crew. This was from a crew site.

I dumped her off about five days into the trip. Within 24 hours of being at the marina she went onto the kind of boat she was looking for where she could just hook up with the guy and do nothing.

One of the many reasons I singlehand.

[Sailor Sailor]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Oddly, it can work both ways...

Seriously? She did not rape you. Maybe you imagined her interest in you. That is not a good example of it "work[ing] both ways." You just picked a bad, lazy, crew member.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Sailor Sailor

Seriously? She did not rape you. Maybe you imagined her interest in you. That is not a good example of it "work[ing] both ways." You just picked a bad, lazy, crew member.

Seriously? I HAVE been raped so why don’t you back off??

Happy to tell the story of my rape if you want to hear it.

And what I said is exactly true. It can work both ways. Some women on there are expecting sexual things to be happening. What is your problem?

Just because women don’t want to be with you doesn’t mean I was imagining that she kept coming onto me and trying to make it into a sex/relationship for free ride situation. I was trying to get rid of her advancrs constantly. It was a very uncomfortable situation. What a jerk. What is your problem actually?

for those who care to look up or find a legend on this thing, I dropped her off in Melbourne Florida. That should identify it. There are plenty of records online and people on here who know exactly what happened. Everybody got a real kick out of the fact that I kicked some apparently to them attractive girl off my boat.

[chubby]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Oddly, it can work both ways. I took on crew for a delivery that I was making. She was young. She was marginally attractive. I was married (to an incredibly beautiful woman). I didn’t really want anything to do with the crew except to get help on watches. I just wanted crew. But she didn’t understand that. Instead of getting up for watch she would sleep in all day and drink all night and expected that it was some kind of relationship in exchange for a free boat trip. Even though I said I was married and gave no indication of needing anything other than crew. This was from a crew site.

I dumped her off about five days into the trip. Within 24 hours of being at the marina she went onto the kind of boat she was looking for where she could just hook up with the guy and do nothing.

One of the many reasons I singlehand.

i wasn't married..

..and i often singlehand.


but i'd routinely have (multiple) younger females on board(usually euros on a gap year or americans of vacay...and more or less met locally)



generally young(er) female crew..

..looked really good in a bikini (or menos)

..cooks better than me
..was a competent-to-good crew



...i was pretty happy getting 2 of 3.




for overnight passages i'd simply divide watches between crew (and i'd do my normal sleeping 20 min-check radar/horizon-sleep another 20 mins thing regardless)






never really had a problem..




🤷

[sailingharry]

I do have to agree with Chotu. While I'll concede that rape is vastly disproportionately male on female, the rules are unfair.

If a guy picks up a girl, gets her drunk, takes her to bed, he can't use the "it was consensual" because since she was drunk she can't concede. In theory. And I mostly agree.

But I had this incident a few years back. A g/f and I were at a party. We'd both had a few. We get back to the boat. She was very drunk and very amorous, I was tired. She won, we had sex. Point is, the next day she COULD have accused me of rape, and I'd have no defense. Who cares we were in a sexual relationship -- that's not a defense (and shouldn't be). Who cares that she started it -- she wasn't capable of initiating a consensual act. And the fact that I was also drunk just makes my defense even harder.

The table is certainly not level.

[Lrak]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

I do have to agree with Chotu. While I'll concede that rape is vastly disproportionately male on female, the rules are unfair.

Part of the reason it looks disproportionate is because the rules are unfair. If a person was nonconsensually penetrated, it counts as rape in rape statistics. If a person was nonconsensually enveloped, it does not count as rape in rape statistics. Government statistics show that in a typical year a man is as likely to be "made to penetrate" or "forced to penetrate" as a woman is to be raped. The typical nonconsensual sex for a man doesn't count as rape. Therefore those behind the statistics can claim 99% of rapists are men, when reality is more like 59% of rapists are men.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

I do have to agree with Chotu. While I'll concede that rape is vastly disproportionately male on female, the rules are unfair.

If a guy picks up a girl, gets her drunk, takes her to bed, he can't use the "it was consensual" because since she was drunk she can't concede. In theory. And I mostly agree.

But I had this incident a few years back. A g/f and I were at a party. We'd both had a few. We get back to the boat. She was very drunk and very amorous, I was tired. She won, we had sex. Point is, the next day she COULD have accused me of rape, and I'd have no defense. Who cares we were in a sexual relationship -- that's not a defense (and shouldn't be). Who cares that she started it -- she wasn't capable of initiating a consensual act. And the fact that I was also drunk just makes my defense even harder.

The table is certainly not level.

Geez.

I think you worry too much.

Most guys really don't have too much of a problem if a woman has too many drinks and wants sex which is why we (men) get compared to dogs a lot

The problem is rarely women being pushy to have sex with a man except maybe with Chotu. (hopefully the weed girl is easier on him)

[JPA Cate]

It may never be a level playing table, as long as in general men are stronger than women.

Sailing is still a male dominated sport.

And, I agree it is dangerous for skippers to take on unknown crew, just as it is for women to crew for unknown to them skippers. Period. For me, that is the absolute bottom line, here. Furthermore, even if you take an acquaintance sailing, it can work out to be a trip from the dark side. How about a crew who couldn't remember how to tie a cleat hitch and was not interested to learn? a crew who spent their night time watches looking at their phone instead of keeping watch? How can you MAKE them be decent crew? You're suddenly worse off than the guy who plans to singlehand, because you still have to do all your watches, at the same time as you have a duty of care for them.

We are cruisers at a time when more people want/need help with their boats (boat size is one factor here). And these same people are mainly from white collar professions. Many of them lack even basic mechanical skills, and some of them look down on that type of work, which is a big part of what cruising is: fixing your boat in exotic places, hopefully before something has broken--maintenance, rather than catch up.

The rest of what I see, I have already written about on CF, and can be found in archived posts on this subject. I have a bias toward the woman's side of things, in general, being the daughter of a woman who was not allowed to go to night classes at a public junior college, because they didn't want to open the women's toilets at night...or so she said, anyway. It's safe to say I didn't grow up in a neutral environment.

Male chauvinism is still alive and well in the greater part of the world. Women should be warned; AND, so should men: some of those females will try and take advantage of men, too. Taking advantage of people is more of a character related trait than gender related. What was written above relating to the Diagnostics and Statistical Manual from the US American Psychological Association could easily be somewhat misleading because the anti-social personality statistics are based on prison situations, and that is already pre-selected to have more males. We don't have definitive evidence that there is any less evil in females, only that more are not found in prisons.

The conditioning soldiers undergo before going into battle are all designed to keep them from feeling the horror of the situations into which they are placed. Is it like training to have an anti-social personality disorder? I don't know. It's pretty powerful training.

The issue of being taken advantage of in boating takes place in the world society at large, and it's hard to understand or name all the factors involved.

I think the most important thing is to do a character assessment on the prospective crew or skipper, and to state expectations clearly and maybe even have them in writing.*

Ann

*<monte> posted a copy of his crew contract here a long time ago, now, maybe you can find it in the archives, I couldn't find it just now, but it was quite clear.

On edit: here's a copy of the contract:

Originally Posted by monte View Post
Here's something that might help others in similar situations. Anyone sailing on board with us is informed they will be required to agree to the terms before departure. Along with some other information it is emailed to potential crew before any agreements are in place. Friends and family are also required to agree to these terms. This process should have resolved the OPs problem we'll beforehand. Feel free to cut/paste/edit for your own use. ( legal disclaimer : this form may or may not be legal in your particular location or situation. Seeking legal advice for your particular situation is advised )



CREW AGREEMENT SV SEPHINA

YACHT: Sephina (here after referred to as "the Yacht")

VOYAGE FROM: ______________________________

TO: _________________________________

INTENTIONS:
This agreement is designed to anticipate problems that might occur while aboard, both at sea or coastal cruising, and thus, avoid them. It is designed to protect both the skipper/owner and those who join him. To facilitate inquiries, should anything go wrong, a copy will be sent to the skipper's representative before departure; and I suggest that you send a copy to someone you deem appropriate. It is wise to inform someone at home of your plans.

Crewing on Sephina works best when all are considered equals. You will be consulted, when appropriate, as a part of decision making, but you must be also willing to share all work, difficulties and dangers. In completing this agreement YOU TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR DECISION TO JOIN, and agree that you are willing to accept all that may come your way. There have been no inducements or promises or consideration that is not fully described in this agreement.

The skipper hereby declares his belief that the boat is properly equipped and prepared for the planned voyage, and that he is fully competent to manage, alone or with crew. He invites the crew to test this statement in any way they wish - by their own inquiries and judgement, or with the help of others. When you sign this you agree that you have full investigated and found that the boat is properly equipped and that the skipper is capable, fit and competent. You understand and agree that I am the captain and you must obey all lawful orders.

MEDICAL DETAILS:
The boat has a well equipped medical kit, and a powerful radio with which emergency help may be obtained. However, you must take full responsibility for any current or past medical conditions that may recur, or any medical or health problems that may occur during or as a result of this trip. Make sure that you have ample medication for at least twice as long as the expected passage. You must inform the skipper of any potentially serious conditions that could affect safety at sea. Give details below of any known drug allergies, conditions that might recur, and current medication(s):

(mark "NONE" if none)_____________________________________________

Medical insurance may help save your life.

List details of your medical insurance, if any and all contact details:


Apart from spoiling your trip and making it harder for others aboard, seasickness can be dangerous, even fatal. Unless you know, from extensive experience, that you will not be affected, you must have, and be willing to use, reputable seasickness treatment. This is your responsibility.

_________ (initials, crew) ___________ (Initials, skipper)

PASSPORTS, VISAS AND REPATRIATION:
When you enter another country you may need to have a passport and visa, and be able to prove you can get yourself out of the country (other than by yacht) to another country to which you have full right of entry. The simplest way is to have an air ticket, or to carry sufficient cash to cover one. Credit cards are of no use in some countries. You are responsible for this and you understand that you may be asked to furnish proof to the skipper on boarding, and deposit with him your passport, air ticket or cash in lieu.

TRIP INTERRUPTION:
You understand that should you leave the yacht, for whatever reason, at a port other than that to which you had agreed in this agreement, you will be responsible for all your own travel and related costs. You also understand and agree that if you are asked to leave the yacht for reasons of lack of competence, inappropriate behaviour, crew incompatibility, illness, or the inability to carry out required tasks, which, in skipper's opinion, is endangering the safe operation of the yacht, you will also be responsible for all your own repatriation costs. However, in this event, the Skipper will take all reasonable measures to disembark you at a suitable port along the intended route, from which you can arrange your travel home.

MAINTENANCE WORK:
Keeping a cruising boat in safe condition requires work on repairs and maintenance , and this is an obligation to be shared by all aboard. Good crew looks for ways to help, and taking part will make you feel involved. As a guide you should be willing to put in about a half an hour a day, plus half a day per week, on maintenance or and repair to the boat. This does not include domestic work, in which you will also be required to share.

COST:
You may be required to contribute a daily amount to cover your cost aboard. To help avoid disagreements, all arrangements and all transactions must be recorded, at the time they are made, in this document initialled by both parties. You agree that at any monies you pay toward your own costs is not for any charter fee or passenger fee for the benefit of the boat or its owner or the skipper, but only for your own costs.

Costs per day: (no greater than) $__________________ initial_______

CREW DETAILS:

Name______________________________________________ ______

Address___________________________________________ _______

Passport Country/Number____________________________________
Passport Place and date of issue_______________________________
Passport expiry date_________________________________________

Contact Phone_____________________________________________

(Provide two (2) copies of the issue page(s) of your passport, and provide information from the passport: number, issue place , date of issue, expiration date, home address; and next of kin's full name, address and telephone number and an alternative contact.)
(initials, crew) ___________ (Initials, skipper) ___________

DECLARATIONS
I have completed the above details fully and honestly, and have volunteered any further information I am aware of that may affect the safe enjoyment of the proposed voyage by all aboard. I do not have any illegal drugs or weapons in my possession, and will immediately inform the skipper if I become aware of any on board, or anyone trying to bring such items aboard. I declare, by written statement on this agreement, details of any convictions, in any country, for the involvement with illegal drugs or weapons. I will not carry any packages for any third party on the boat without first requesting permission from the skipper. I accept that the skipper may change his plans, and will not hold him responsible for transportation to the original destination, should that not be reached by Sephina

I will make myself familiar with the location and operation of all safety equipment aboard the boat. I will seek to learn all aspects of seamanship by reading appropriate manuals and book aboard, and by asking help from the skipper and others. The responsibility is fully mine to learn and to ask to be taught any skills that I need for safe operation of the boat. If there is anything happening aboard the boat about which I am uncomfortable, I will discuss it with those concerned as soon as possible in order to avoid irreversible resentments that may spoil the atmosphere for all aboard. If the skipper is held responsible for bailing me out of trouble if I transgress local laws and customs, I agree to fully reimburse any cost incurred; and to compensate him for the time lost for every day of delay my action may cause. I take full responsibility for any requirements and cost relating for my entry and exit in countries to be visited by the boat. I agree to share all work aboard, and obey all orders given to me relating to the safe conduct of the boat, at all times.

I am aware that there are risks that I will face in this voyage, and take full responsibility for my decision to join the crew.

I, or my heirs, next of kin, legal representatives, successors and assigns, and in consideration of the acceptance as a crew member of the yacht, do hereby waive any and all claims which I may have against Robert Monteith or any other duly qualified and authorized captain appointed by him, arising out of, or in any way connected with, my participation as a members of the crew of the yacht, and understand and agree that, as a member of the crew of said yacht, I have no recourse or claims of any kind against Robert Monteith and shall hold him harmless against all consequences of my participation as a crew member aboard the yacht.


Crew member:________________________


Skipper:____________________________


Date:

[dannc]

There are evil people in the world. Some people know this without having to pay the piper, others are clueless and lucky, but some learn the hard way.

Gender does not really play into evil.

A friend of my family was murdered by one of the few woman serial killers. She executed our friend because she wanted too. She did not even take the money he offered to her and her accomplice as he begged for his life. He was just doing his job, ran into these two evil woman, who likely told him a lie so he would go help them, and he was executed for the thrill of killing him.

Later,
Dan

[davil]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

Why is this discussion limited to sexual abuse of women. The same thing could happen to men. The same could also apply to crew engaged by a captain. Being at sea in a boat is nowhere to find out that a person you are sharing the boat with is a total wacko. Whether you are crew getting on a boat or a captain bringing on strange crew one best be advised to be extremely careful.

======================================

Captain Bill

agree with you.

I think because the OP refers to The Guardian article and was very specific to women as victims of sexual predators at sea.

Now, rape is Sexual Assault, and if one likes to expand on it then yes, without regard of gender, be victims of Assaulting Behavior.

This is a timely discussion to raise

[Drunkonwatch]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

It may never be a level playing table, as long as in general men are stronger than women.

Sailing is still a male dominated sport.

And, I agree it is dangerous for skippers to take on unknown crew, just as it is for women to crew for unknown to them skippers. Period. For me, that is the absolute bottom line, here. Furthermore, even if you take an acquaintance sailing, it can work out to be a trip from the dark side. How about a crew who couldn't remember how to tie a cleat hitch and was not interested to learn? a crew who spent their night time watches looking at their phone instead of keeping watch? How can you MAKE them be decent crew? You're suddenly worse off than the guy who plans to singlehand, because you still have to do all your watches, at the same time as you have a duty of care for them.

We are cruisers at a time when more people want/need help with their boats (boat size is one factor here). And these same people are mainly from white collar professions. Many of them lack even basic mechanical skills, and some of them look down on that type of work, which is a big part of what cruising is: fixing your boat in exotic places, hopefully before something has broken--maintenance, rather than catch up.

The rest of what I see, I have already written about on CF, and can be found in archived posts on this subject. I have a bias toward the woman's side of things, in general, being the daughter of a woman who was not allowed to go to night classes at a public junior college, because they didn't want to open the women's toilets at night...or so she said, anyway. It's safe to say I didn't grow up in a neutral environment.

Male chauvinism is still alive and well in the greater part of the world. Women should be warned; AND, so should men: some of those females will try and take advantage of men, too. Taking advantage of people is more of a character related trait than gender related. What was written above relating to the Diagnostics and Statistical Manual from the US American Psychological Association could easily be somewhat misleading because the anti-social personality statistics are based on prison situations, and that is already pre-selected to have more males. We don't have definitive evidence that there is any less evil in females, only that more are not found in prisons.

The conditioning soldiers undergo before going into battle are all designed to keep them from feeling the horror of the situations into which they are placed. Is it like training to have an anti-social personality disorder? I don't know. It's pretty powerful training.

The issue of being taken advantage of in boating takes place in the world society at large, and it's hard to understand or name all the factors involved.

I think the most important thing is to do a character assessment on the prospective crew or skipper, and to state expectations clearly and maybe even have them in writing.*

Ann

*<monte> posted a copy of his crew contract here a long time ago, now, maybe you can find it in the archives, I couldn't find it just now, but it was quite clear.

On edit: here's a copy of the contract:

Originally Posted by monte View Post
Here's something that might help others in similar situations. Anyone sailing on board with us is informed they will be required to agree to the terms before departure. Along with some other information it is emailed to potential crew before any agreements are in place. Friends and family are also required to agree to these terms. This process should have resolved the OPs problem we'll beforehand. Feel free to cut/paste/edit for your own use. ( legal disclaimer : this form may or may not be legal in your particular location or situation. Seeking legal advice for your particular situation is advised )



CREW AGREEMENT SV SEPHINA

YACHT: Sephina (here after referred to as "the Yacht")

VOYAGE FROM: ______________________________

TO: _________________________________

INTENTIONS:
This agreement is designed to anticipate problems that might occur while aboard, both at sea or coastal cruising, and thus, avoid them. It is designed to protect both the skipper/owner and those who join him. To facilitate inquiries, should anything go wrong, a copy will be sent to the skipper's representative before departure; and I suggest that you send a copy to someone you deem appropriate. It is wise to inform someone at home of your plans.

Crewing on Sephina works best when all are considered equals. You will be consulted, when appropriate, as a part of decision making, but you must be also willing to share all work, difficulties and dangers. In completing this agreement YOU TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR DECISION TO JOIN, and agree that you are willing to accept all that may come your way. There have been no inducements or promises or consideration that is not fully described in this agreement.

The skipper hereby declares his belief that the boat is properly equipped and prepared for the planned voyage, and that he is fully competent to manage, alone or with crew. He invites the crew to test this statement in any way they wish - by their own inquiries and judgement, or with the help of others. When you sign this you agree that you have full investigated and found that the boat is properly equipped and that the skipper is capable, fit and competent. You understand and agree that I am the captain and you must obey all lawful orders.

MEDICAL DETAILS:
The boat has a well equipped medical kit, and a powerful radio with which emergency help may be obtained. However, you must take full responsibility for any current or past medical conditions that may recur, or any medical or health problems that may occur during or as a result of this trip. Make sure that you have ample medication for at least twice as long as the expected passage. You must inform the skipper of any potentially serious conditions that could affect safety at sea. Give details below of any known drug allergies, conditions that might recur, and current medication(s):

(mark "NONE" if none)_____________________________________________

Medical insurance may help save your life.

List details of your medical insurance, if any and all contact details:


Apart from spoiling your trip and making it harder for others aboard, seasickness can be dangerous, even fatal. Unless you know, from extensive experience, that you will not be affected, you must have, and be willing to use, reputable seasickness treatment. This is your responsibility.

_________ (initials, crew) ___________ (Initials, skipper)

PASSPORTS, VISAS AND REPATRIATION:
When you enter another country you may need to have a passport and visa, and be able to prove you can get yourself out of the country (other than by yacht) to another country to which you have full right of entry. The simplest way is to have an air ticket, or to carry sufficient cash to cover one. Credit cards are of no use in some countries. You are responsible for this and you understand that you may be asked to furnish proof to the skipper on boarding, and deposit with him your passport, air ticket or cash in lieu.

TRIP INTERRUPTION:
You understand that should you leave the yacht, for whatever reason, at a port other than that to which you had agreed in this agreement, you will be responsible for all your own travel and related costs. You also understand and agree that if you are asked to leave the yacht for reasons of lack of competence, inappropriate behaviour, crew incompatibility, illness, or the inability to carry out required tasks, which, in skipper's opinion, is endangering the safe operation of the yacht, you will also be responsible for all your own repatriation costs. However, in this event, the Skipper will take all reasonable measures to disembark you at a suitable port along the intended route, from which you can arrange your travel home.

MAINTENANCE WORK:
Keeping a cruising boat in safe condition requires work on repairs and maintenance , and this is an obligation to be shared by all aboard. Good crew looks for ways to help, and taking part will make you feel involved. As a guide you should be willing to put in about a half an hour a day, plus half a day per week, on maintenance or and repair to the boat. This does not include domestic work, in which you will also be required to share.

COST:
You may be required to contribute a daily amount to cover your cost aboard. To help avoid disagreements, all arrangements and all transactions must be recorded, at the time they are made, in this document initialled by both parties. You agree that at any monies you pay toward your own costs is not for any charter fee or passenger fee for the benefit of the boat or its owner or the skipper, but only for your own costs.

Costs per day: (no greater than) $__________________ initial_______

CREW DETAILS:

Name______________________________________________ ______

Address___________________________________________ _______

Passport Country/Number____________________________________
Passport Place and date of issue_______________________________
Passport expiry date_________________________________________

Contact Phone_____________________________________________

(Provide two (2) copies of the issue page(s) of your passport, and provide information from the passport: number, issue place , date of issue, expiration date, home address; and next of kin's full name, address and telephone number and an alternative contact.)
(initials, crew) ___________ (Initials, skipper) ___________

DECLARATIONS
I have completed the above details fully and honestly, and have volunteered any further information I am aware of that may affect the safe enjoyment of the proposed voyage by all aboard. I do not have any illegal drugs or weapons in my possession, and will immediately inform the skipper if I become aware of any on board, or anyone trying to bring such items aboard. I declare, by written statement on this agreement, details of any convictions, in any country, for the involvement with illegal drugs or weapons. I will not carry any packages for any third party on the boat without first requesting permission from the skipper. I accept that the skipper may change his plans, and will not hold him responsible for transportation to the original destination, should that not be reached by Sephina

I will make myself familiar with the location and operation of all safety equipment aboard the boat. I will seek to learn all aspects of seamanship by reading appropriate manuals and book aboard, and by asking help from the skipper and others. The responsibility is fully mine to learn and to ask to be taught any skills that I need for safe operation of the boat. If there is anything happening aboard the boat about which I am uncomfortable, I will discuss it with those concerned as soon as possible in order to avoid irreversible resentments that may spoil the atmosphere for all aboard. If the skipper is held responsible for bailing me out of trouble if I transgress local laws and customs, I agree to fully reimburse any cost incurred; and to compensate him for the time lost for every day of delay my action may cause. I take full responsibility for any requirements and cost relating for my entry and exit in countries to be visited by the boat. I agree to share all work aboard, and obey all orders given to me relating to the safe conduct of the boat, at all times.

I am aware that there are risks that I will face in this voyage, and take full responsibility for my decision to join the crew.

I, or my heirs, next of kin, legal representatives, successors and assigns, and in consideration of the acceptance as a crew member of the yacht, do hereby waive any and all claims which I may have against Robert Monteith or any other duly qualified and authorized captain appointed by him, arising out of, or in any way connected with, my participation as a members of the crew of the yacht, and understand and agree that, as a member of the crew of said yacht, I have no recourse or claims of any kind against Robert Monteith and shall hold him harmless against all consequences of my participation as a crew member aboard the yacht.


Crew member:________________________


Skipper:____________________________


Date:

You must be confused with Wagner group not respected defense forces comprised of women and men committed to their perspective countries collective defense. Hope you never need a coast guard vessel or bird…….. Interesting topic good on the OP. Nothing like getting on the naked boat not knowing!

[Seaworthy Lass]

This long running thread titled “Checklist for voluntary crew” is “sticky” in CF’s Crew Positions subforum:
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ew-105914.html
Crewing was described as being akin to hitchhiking. Also that two most dangerous things you can do on a boat are “to crew for an unknown skipper and to take on unknown crew”.

Nothing is foolproof, but here were some of the suggestions given in the above thread regarding how to help assess a captain’s character:

- Trust any negative “gut feel” (ie instinct/intuition). Ignore this at your peril. This comment came up over and over and over.

- Research the captain's name and boat name to see if they've had any media exposure (crimes, mishaps etc).

- Look at the captain's historical posts on social media eg forums (ask for their username), blogs, YouTube, Facebook etc.

- Conduct one or more online face to face interviews (video chats) including small talk. If they are “unable” to do this, it is a red flag. Ask innocent questions about the captain’s prior problems with other crew, which will give you valuable hints on HIS personality. Try to apply the same interview techniques as an employer in order to find a bit out about the captain (Google it).

- Establish a conversation long enough to discuss multiple topics including his experience, expectations, plans, routines, thoughts about various things important on the sail. The more topics covered and the more details discussed, the more opportunity you have to learn about the captain.

- Meet and have a meal together (also watch how they treat the waiter/waitress).

- Ask around the marina.

- Ask about previous crew and contact them.

- Go for a day sail together.

- Ask if they have a TWIC (Homeland security background check) or a document from the police reflecting that there is no history of a criminal record.

- Ask if the captain is willing to give his passport and MMSI number that you can pass onto family before boarding. Not being willing to disclose these is another red flag.

[davil]

I like the suggestions
Risky business indeed.


I would emphasize this forum records

This site actually does offer a glimpse on any poster by examining very carefully all postings, people actually reveal more of themselves when not aware they are doing it.

If they are not members, I offer to check my postings
that has worked
=====================================
If a female crew, have offered prior crew contact information and that seems to work, also have given my daughter's to talk to, not only a "second opinion" but provides another layer of checking points.
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Once a crew is on board will have access to my Garmin Explorer InReach and Zoleo, I pay for their daily emails and their family and friends have access to the boat tracking.
Is an added expense but in my opinion wort it.
Everybody knows where we are at all times.

[Allied39]

Other than boredom and entertainment I can see no reason for this post.
Some folks are stupid, some folks are scum, a lot of folks are a mix.....and of course there's a few decent folk out there too. All interacting with differing results.
So?
Seems this forum is pretty quiet on some pretty questionable behavior from what I have seen, why even debate this. Doh...boredom and entertainment, LOL, so sorry, my bad.