"Evicted": Marina Won't Renew Contract for Next Year to maximize Profit

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by foggysail

Oh, you think so???? Massachusetts beach front property owners own to the water's edge ...not sure if its the high or low tide mark. AND THEY CAN CALL THE COPS TO FORCE YOU TO MOVE OFF THEIR LAND!!!

Remember the subject of this thread: it's about marina prices and evictions.

Marinas occupy water next to the land, generally referred to as shorelines, which, in most areas cover the land from the high tide line outward.

The point is that in almost all maritime areas, and this includes many if not most other countries in the world, those shorelines are recognized as publically owned and the public has rights to access and enjoy those shorelines.

And those shorelines are a limited resource.

So there are some of us who feel that unadulterated capitalism should not be allowed to cede exclusive use of those limited resources to only the wealthy.

That principle extends to many other resources.

And of course there are differing views. Some feel that if a person does not have enough wealth to buy and own a part of those resources that is a problem of thier own making, in that they didn't work hard enough to acquire the needed wealth.

Others feel that our society will be better or more fair if we don't take the stance that only the rich people should have a good life.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Sounds like capitalism operating as designed.

Capitalism does not mean despotism.

The cry for help, is a cry to acknowledge the situation, and then for like-minded cruisers to apply economic pressure in the capitalistic system, to down prices.

Your post helped squat, except for highlighting the obvious.

That goes for piggyback NaClyDog too - as the name suggests.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Remember the subject of this thread: it's about marina prices and evictions.

Marinas occupy water next to the land, generally referred to as shorelines, which, in most areas cover the land from the high tide line outward.

The point is that in almost all maritime areas, and this includes many if not most other countries in the world, those shorelines are recognized as publically owned and the public has rights to access and enjoy those shorelines.

And those shorelines are a limited resource.

So there are some of us who feel that unadulterated capitalism should not be allowed to cede exclusive use of those limited resources to only the wealthy.

That principle extends to many other resources.

And of course there are differing views. Some feel that if a person does not have enough wealth to buy and own a part of those resources that is a problem of thier own making, in that they didn't work hard enough to acquire the needed wealth.

Others feel that our society will be better or more fair if we don't take the stance that only the rich people should have a good life.

Agreed. I am very pro capitalism, but no right is absolute. Money corrupts.
And many rich people (to which I am not excluded), did not necessarily made money by working soooo hard.

Rich people easily think money comes with the right of entitlement. If they are so rich, let them build their own backyard dock.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

Unchecked greed? Maybe. Maybe not. When was the last time they raised the fees? How much have their expenses increased? Is the increased revenue going to be used to pay for the supposed improvements? Usually, a private facility will make the improvements first.

Given that this is a government facility, you may well be correct. There is a very good chance that the state wants to increase their revenue, and cares far less about any improvements.

Quite often the municipal marina was built on public shorelines without the cost of acquiring the land. In the case of our marina Seattle the uplands and shorelines were seized under eminent domain for the purpose of providing a public marina. Now it operates as a profit center without paying taxes. Information we obtained during a dispute over our Marina's plans in Seattle revealed that the marina was profitable at that time to the tune of $600,000 per year (in 1995) yet they still wanted to raise rates. We told them that they were given the land (and the marina was built by the Corps of Engineers) to provide a public facility, not to build a profit center to fund other port operations. In that instance after public hearings the plans were revised. Nobody was happy so it must have been a good compromise.

If a private marina is allowed to lease the public shoreline there should be limits and restrictions to ensure it is put to a use which is good for the entire community, not just to serve the wealthy.

[merrydolphin]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Quite often the municipal marina was built on public shorelines without the cost of acquiring the land. In the case of our marina Seattle the uplands and shorelines were seized under eminent domain for the purpose of providing a public marina. Now it operates as a profit center without paying taxes. Information we obtained during a dispute over our Marina's plans in Seattle revealed that the marina was profitable at that time to the tune of $600,000 per year (in 1995) yet they still wanted to raise rates. We told them that they were given the land (and the marina was built by the Corps of Engineers) to provide a public facility, not to build a profit center to fund other port operations. In that instance after public hearings the plans were revised. Nobody was happy so it must have been a good compromise.

If a private marina is allowed to lease the public shoreline there should be limits and restrictions to ensure it is put to a use which is good for the entire community, not just to serve the wealthy.

Ah ha!! Now you are talking about Capitalism’s very close relative Corruption!!
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The more power, the more corruption. Greed self propetuates.

[David Ess]

Exactly. No use complaining you cant afford something.

[David Ess]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The myth I was referring to is the notion that wealth in a capitalist society equates to those who work the hardest, and if you are poor it is your fault because you worked less.

As I said, this circumstance is perfectly in line with how a capitalist society, and business within said society, is expected to operate. Profit maximization is the bottom line, so naturally our OP shouldn't be surprised at what is happening.

"Maximum profit" is not part of capitalism. It doesnt care if you want to run your marina as a charity.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Gerrit Coetzee

Capitalism does not mean despotism.

The cry for help, is a cry to acknowledge the situation, and then for like-minded cruisers to apply economic pressure in the capitalistic system, to down prices.

Your post helped squat, except for highlighting the obvious.

That goes for piggyback NaClyDog too - as the name suggests.

Touchy... I think truth and reality always trumps dreams and fantasy.

[David Ess]

For those of you complaining about capitalism, how do you like marinas under different systems, say, as as in Cuba? Anybody know what marinas were like in the old east block? Also, if some boater complains about price, some marina owners probably complain about boaters trying to live a lifestyle they cant afford.

[David Ess]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Touchy... I think truth and reality always trumps dreams and fantasy.

Yes, and image if a guy complained that he cant afford the boat or the marina, or the bikini girls he would like!

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by foggysail

Oh, you think so???? Massachusetts beach front property owners own to the water's edge ...not sure if its the high or low tide mark. AND THEY CAN CALL THE COPS TO FORCE YOU TO MOVE OFF THEIR LAND!!!

It's the High Tide mark, and that isn't exclusive to Massachusetts. It gets foggy because entitled landowners attempt assert their rights all the way to the low water line and often INTO the water.

However the scope of the post you're responding to is 'Public Land'. Below high tide is considered 'water', not land. above high tide is private land in the case of beachfront properties. Neither of which are considered Public Land.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by David Ess

"Maximum profit" is not part of capitalism. It doesnt care if you want to run your marina as a charity.

Capitalism: the accumulation and utilization of capital. Capital is generated from profit.

No... it doesn't have to be this way. In fact, all functioning capitalist societies operate somewhere between capitalism and socialism. None are pure, unfettered capitalist states.

So it is certainly possible for society to impose other values onto the market of marina slips. In fact, we already do this through all the environmental and developmental laws we apply. But a marina maximizing profit by seeking higher-paying clients is exactly what you'd expect in a capitalist system.


BTW, this doesn't mean it is right, or just. It simply is how you'd expect a capitalist market to operate.

[rsementi]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

You beat me to it... was just typing this out!

Capitalism lowers prices. The costs of all goods Abd services are going up everywhere. Not because of capitalism but because of the fiat money printing machine that our fed bank and treasury is responsible for. It sucks that they are evicting you but if there are people waiting in line to get full service and willing to pay for it, then that is absolutely fair.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

The problem comes about when we make the rules.

You are going to cause me to hurt myself laughing so hard. It's almost as if the Koch brothers are the puppeteers and these posters are their marionettes.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by rsementi

Capitalism lowers prices.

No, it most certainly does not. Ideally, it matches prices to demands - by lower AND raising prices. But capitalism is only practiced in right wing think tanks.
In the real world, businesses do everything in their power to distort markets to achieve monopoly power to jack up prices.
You fun-loving capitalists I am sure will be happy to pay higher air fares to the Caribbean when American Airlines zeroes out Jet Blue.