"Evicted": Marina Won't Renew Contract for Next Year to maximize Profit

[Pelagic]

.... but if you try sometimes....

https://youtu.be/oqMl5CRoFdk

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Macrophylla

This is sarcasm right? We’re talking about facilities to support a HOBBY, and a pretty exclusive one at that, not basic human needs like food and shelter. Next thing someone will be begging for subsidized slip rates “for the children”.

No Macrophylla, My post was not sarcasm.

I am a citizen of the US and we, as citizens, all share, and are entitled to, that part of the country, and its natural resources, which are deemed public and which have been held in reserve for us all.

It doesn't matter if you consider use of the shorelines for a marina berth to be a "hobby" or not. That usage is for all of us anyhow. Just as, for example, hiking trails in a national park could be considered a hobby.

But in my case this is my life, it is not a hobby, and if I get pushed out by some guy richer than me I will feel that he is not only taking my slip, something I've paid for for man years, but part of my life.

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by wingssail

No Macrophylla, My post was not sarcasm.

I am a citizen of the US and we, as citizens, all share, and are entitled to, that part of the country, and its natural resources, which are deemed public and which have been held in reserve for us all.

It doesn't matter if you consider use of the shorelines for a marina berth to be a "hobby" or not. That usage is for all of us anyhow. Just as, for example, hiking trails in a national park could be considered a hobby.

But in my case this is my life, it is not a hobby, and if I get pushed out by some guy richer than me I will feel that he is not only taking my slip, something I've paid for for man years, but part of my life.

"and its natural resources, which are deemed public and which have been held in reserve for us all".

Right. Now just wander on to someones mining claim to claim your nugget of freedom and see what happens.

[Macrophylla]

This doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

The marina / condo / national park exists for the profit/benefit of the landowner (citizens in the case of a national park) as such its use is solely their decision subject to regulations imposed by the will of the voter.

The OP was asked to move along because he’s not a profitable customer, again the owner using their property for its best benefit, literally as American as apple pie.

But your example states that as a slip owner you’d be upset if you were pushed out for a ‘richer’ person, I’d agree with you assuming you OWN the slip (in which case said evil rich person could buy you out, anything else is theft), if you are just renting/leasing then you are asking the owner to accept less what the market says is fair to benefit yourself which is, charity at best, theft at worst.

What made me assume sarcasm is that, as an American, Americans with boats bitching about the “rich” smacks of jealousy and fear/anger/loathing of the joneses that couldn’t be kept up with.

Your annual property taxes probably exceed the household earnings on an annual basis of 96% of the worlds population. How many years in a Chinese sweatshop would it take for you to pay to replace your sails and rigging? Seriously folks, we have a hobby that jokes about Breaking Out Another Thousand, if you aren’t ready to burn some serious cash find a less expensive hobby.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by ixnax

"and its natural resources, which are deemed public and which have been held in reserve for us all".

Right. Now just wander on to someones mining claim to claim your nugget of freedom and see what happens.

Oh Yeah, sweet, another Steven Seagal tough guy.

You think that mining claim didn't come with some strings attached, like... "Granting public access?"

And if it didn't, you post some signs. And someone does wander on anyhow, what do you think that gives you a right to do? Huh, tough guy?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by ixnax

Unfortunately, talking smack and pointing fingers at corporations, which must include me as I own my own small ones and stock in huge ones, remains free of charge. On the subject as we lay bare our social desires here on the internet, haven't Google, Amazon and the wide availability of online shopping been nice lately?

Capitalism is amoral. That's not a put-down or condemnation, it's just how it is, by design. The corporation's only obligation is to its shareholders. And as an engine of economic growth, capitalism works pretty darn good.

But capitalism is a means, not the end, and what's best for profits isn't always best for society, so we impose regulations and write laws... put up guardrails, basically, so that (hopefully) capitalism works its magic for the most people possible, with the least amount of negative social impact. (like, having a say when there's a development like a marina that's on/adjacent to a public resource)

Internet? I spent the second half of my working life in that field. Truly transformative, and it's made many fortunes and paid many great salaries. And going through COVID without the Internet? Unthinkable. But we can still point out the collateral damage, and try to close some of the loopholes that continue to give some online retailers an unfair edge over brick-and-mortar stores... such as not having to collect sales taxes due in the purchaser's part of the world. Consumers are tickled, but it punishes local businesses and cuts sales tax revenues.

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Oh Yeah, sweet, another Steven Seagal tough guy.

You think that mining claim didn't come with some strings attached, like... "Granting public access?"

And if it didn't, you post some signs. And someone does wander on anyhow, what do you think that gives you a right to do? Huh, tough guy?

Well there, for some background I ran a mining company that owned all levels of mining claims. The highest level is a US Government Patent. That is like fee simple ownership of your house in town. Even Stipulated claims and initial claims give you the absolute right to the claimed area including allowing no trespassers.

FYI, your Steven Seagal and tough guy accusations do no more than expose your deep seated issues for all to see.

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Capitalism is amoral. That's not a put-down or condemnation, it's just how it is, by design. The corporation's only obligation is to its shareholders. And as an engine of economic growth, capitalism works pretty darn good.

But capitalism is a means, not the end, and what's best for profits isn't always best for society, so we impose regulations and write laws... put up guardrails, basically, so that (hopefully) capitalism works its magic for the most people possible, with the least amount of negative social impact. (like, having a say when there's a development like a marina that's on/adjacent to a public resource)

Internet? I spent the second half of my working life in that field. Truly transformative, and it's made many fortunes and paid many great salaries. And going through COVID without the Internet? Unthinkable. But we can still point out the collateral damage, and try to close some of the loopholes that continue to give some online retailers an unfair edge over brick-and-mortar stores... such as not having to collect sales taxes due in the purchaser's part of the world. Consumers are tickled, but it punishes local businesses and cuts sales tax revenues.

Capitalism is amoral? Sure, if you like, but it's also an economic system and one you can flee if you so choose. But while you are still here, I've been pondering this Safe Harbor Group who are accumulating a portfolio of properties, As is*usual,*once real business people are in charge then pricing gets right sized. Now here is the fun part for anyone not enjoying this normal expression of capitalism: next up once they have enough mass the whole shebang gets sold to a fund. Today's terms and pricing will seem a bargain, then.

[JAFO]

Originally Posted by wingssail

You are victim of a trend: Wealthy will take what they want and the rest of us get what we are given.

It's been that way for at least 10,000-12,000 years. Which makes it more than just a 'trend'.

Originally Posted by wingssail

Consider who you vote for.

As my favourite anarchist, Emma Goldman said, "If voting changed anything, it would be illegal".

[JAFO]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

Capitalism has been around forever. Look at the ruins of any ancient city and you'll see the marketplace. That society established a place, and a set of rules, for trade. Businesses and vendors competed within that set of rules, and the ones which did best were the ones who met the customer's needs most efficiently. There's nothing wrong with that.

Oh please.. this is yet another of those "myths of Capitalism" that Mike O'Reilly mentioned.


The myth is, equating owning a business, with Capitalism. The businesses and vendors in those ancient markets weren't Capitalists. They were merely businesses.

If they were Capitalists, the most successful of them would have used their "capital" to expand their business to be bigger than the others, and make use of economies of scale to drive down the competition, eventually putting said competition out of business, and/or buying them out.

But that kind of behaviour is not what we saw happen in ancient markets. Those with businesses were content to simply make a living, without feeling they had to become bigger and better than everyone else.

Just as it is today. Owners of a Mom & Pop store are not Capitalists. Not unless their aim is to use their capital in order to expand, open more stores, and maybe establish a franchise or something. Calling them Capitalists is a lie that Capitalists tell, in order to disguise the fact that what they do is, in fact, anti-social and anti-competition.

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by JAFO

Oh please.. this is yet another of those "myths of Capitalism" that Mike O'Reilly mentioned.


The myth is, equating owning a business, with Capitalism. The businesses and vendors in those ancient markets weren't Capitalists. They were merely businesses.

If they were Capitalists, the most successful of them would have used their "capital" to expand their business to be bigger than the others, and make use of economies of scale to drive down the competition, eventually putting said competition out of business, and/or buying them out.

But that kind of behaviour is not what we saw happen in ancient markets. Those with businesses were content to simply make a living, without feeling they had to become bigger and better than everyone else.

Just as it is today. Owners of a Mom & Pop store are not Capitalists. Not unless their aim is to use their capital in order to expand, open more stores, and maybe establish a franchise or something. Calling them Capitalists is a lie that Capitalists tell, in order to disguise the fact that what they do is, in fact, anti-social and anti-competition.

Utter, full throated, baloney. Not every capitalist venture accumulates enough capital to change society or even start a chain of similar ventures. Some small capitalists are only able to earn decent lives and provide education for their kids. You have a very messed up view of how a capitalist economy actually works.

[seandepagnier]

capitalism is defined as "being as greedy as possible with total disregard for external costs and destruction"

In other words, just increase the numerical dollar figure in your possession while deceiving others and plundering the natural resources even if you cause more damage than profit in real terms (such as slashing amazon, fracking etc) it doesn't matter as long as your profit is maximized. Doesn't matter if you deny medical treatment to many so that only a few can pay you an exorbitant price, as long as you maximize profits to your shareholders (people who are paid "dividends" just for being rich without doing any actual work) in in so doing, erode the wealth of the common working person by rigging the rules and regulations in your favor using legal bribery "lobbyists" to inflate your wealth (and therefore diminish the value of the dollar)

This is also why they had to get off the gold standard, it prevents the banks from creating infinite money for themselves. In March 2020, the reserve requirement is now 0%, so there is no more fractional reserve since 0 is not a fraction. Now banks (not government) are free to create as much money as they like and lend it out then collect interest on it. Capitalism has corrupted the US so badly now that the dollar is nothing more than a ponzi scheme, using new bonds to pay back old bonds and the eventual collapse is inevitable.

No one can predict the future, but it is clear with live expectancy dropping, and many new problems around the world that from here on, things will get worse not better for the most part. This is the result of capitalism which has its tentacles in almost every economy in the world and therefore is difficult to escape. Most here are the fortunate few who are essentially stepping on the heads of others to achieve their cruising dreams, this is evident when people suggest "finding a cheaper hobby" if you can't afford it etc...

[JAFO]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

At the micro scale, one solution is what my marina did - become a private club. The land is owned jointly by the members and will not be sold to developers anytime in the foreseeable future. The owners (members) value the current use too much to sell out. Without that ownership interest by boat owners, for-profit marinas will eventually all be sold out to developers or Mega-Corp marina chains. Mom-and-Pop marinas are a thing of the past.

So umm.. in other words, they came up with a solution that is, at heart, socialist? Where the asset is jointly owned by those who use it? Where the only solution to rapacious capitalism, was socialism?

How... interesting. And how not-capitalist. Of course, I don't doubt they'll twist themselves into pretzels explaining why what they did isn't socialism.

[JAFO]

Originally Posted by ixnax

Utter, full throated, baloney. Not every capitalist venture accumulates enough capital to change society or even start a chain of similar ventures. Some small capitalists are only able to earn decent lives and provide education for their kids. You have a very messed up view of how a capitalist economy actually works.

There's some baloney here alright, but it's not mine.

By definition, a Capitalist is someone who uses the leverage of their capital, to acquire more capital. If they are not doing that, they are not a Capitalist, no matter how much they try to kid themselves.

And I have a very clear picture of how a capitalist economy actually works. But the actual Capitalists are a very small minority. The rest just tell themselves they're Capitalists, because that's more palatable than admitting they are nothing but resources, cattle, for those who actually are Capitalists. Claiming to be part of the oppressor class, rather than one of the oppressed, lets them sleep better at night.

[JAFO]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Since the first farmer traded a sheaf of grain for leg of antelope from a hunter...reality has held sway. If another hunter offers 2 legs of antelope for the same sheaf of grain, all else being equal, who do you think they will do business with?

That's not how it ever worked. As any field anthropologist can tell you. The whole barter thing is (yet another) myth created by Capitalists. Barter only ever occurred in societies that had previously used money, but for whatever reason, money was now scarce.

In pre-money societies, if someone needed something you had sufficient of, you simply gave it to them. With no expectation of repayment. Because you knew that if you were ever in the situation of needing something, others would do the same for you.

Reading David Graeber's book Debt: The First 5000 Years, will clear up a lot of the misconceptions we have about how trade and money worked.