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Old 13-03-2022, 18:21   #16
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Re: Cruising down from San Diego to mainland mexico

First, if you are taking the panga, put it on the boat. Don't consider towing it. Towing it will slow you down much more than putting it on the catamaran if you can fit it. And, and this is a big "and," towing a boat that size could be a disaster. In rough weather, when it will need to be jettisoned, you'll be very tempted to keep it and rescue it to the point where you will put your own life in danger before you realize the error of your ways. Or leave it, that may be just too big.
Second, a good 50hp outboard will run you $5000 and I don't know of any long shaft 50 hp, are there any? A good used mast and even sails can be less than that. They are out there.
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Old 13-03-2022, 19:35   #17
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Re: Cruising down from San Diego to mainland mexico

Hey guys thank you so much for all the helpful advice! You have all given me a lot to consider and I really appreciate it! My other half is from Acapulco and we are thinking about going there and living aboard there full time. I didn't want to go through the hassle and expense of putting on a mast and sails just for one trip but given all the suggestions I am now rethinking this.

Sean: thanks for your reply and advice! I have been considering the idea of using kites as well , could you use regular kiteboarding kites or would you need kites specifically for kiteboating. Do you need to buy a system like the ones made by wingit kite boat systems which has a dedicated controller and Autopilot? Or can you just get extra strong kite bar and lines and steer it yourself? Has anyone been able to use regular kiteboarding kites to sail their boat instead of sails or a dedicated kite steering system?

Ann: thank you so much for your reply and advice! Could you weather a hurricane in Puerto Marques given that it opens to the west and it seems to be surrounded by relatively hilly terrain? I plan to use two or maybe even three helical screw anchors along with really strong anchor chain and lines.
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Old 13-03-2022, 20:50   #18
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Re: Cruising down from San Diego to mainland mexico

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Originally Posted by sailor4life7777 View Post
Sean: thanks for your reply and advice! I have been considering the idea of using kites as well , could you use regular kiteboarding kites or would you need kites specifically for kiteboating. Do you need to buy a system like the ones made by wingit kite boat systems which has a dedicated controller and Autopilot? Or can you just get extra strong kite bar and lines and steer it yourself? Has anyone been able to use regular kiteboarding kites to sail their boat instead of sails or a dedicated kite steering system?
I don't know much because I have never done it, but apparently, as you spread the lines further apart the kite is more stable. The typical "bar" for use on a kiteboard is not wide enough so it requires constant active correction.

Another thing to consider, is dynamically flying the kite (figure 8) or circle (requires swivel) will greatly increase the power potential downwind, but it's a lot more complex.

So on a catamaran, if you can attach the lines on either side of the hulls spreading them as much as possible, it should make the kite relatively stable, and not require active steering, but it will be limited to power output downwind as you cant actively drive it.

Again... this is all theoretical from my perspective I have no practical experience. I do know some racing boats carry kites to self-rescue in the event of mast failure, and I did carry a kite for many years for this same reason but never did actually use it, the forestay would be in the way so I never tried...

You might even need several sizes of kites, especially if you can't actively drive them. You will be limited in point ability, it will be difficult to make progress upwind but still possible to some extent. Look for maybe a 5-7 meter kite. It won't pull you super fast, but will be a lot easier to manage and you might get 3-5 knots which is pretty decent.

There are also single line kites. These only pull downwind, so your direction of travel relative to the wind would be much more limited, but maybe ok for this trip. They are a lot simpler to rig. You could even possibly just make a very large typical kite of one of the various designs. I would prefer a kiteboarding kite though so you can at least travel upwind slightly.
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Old 13-03-2022, 21:56   #19
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Re: Cruising down from San Diego to mainland mexico

Sailor:

This is the boat you are intending to make the passage in, right?

Sailing Catamarans - Flica 34 - 10.4m family ocean cruiser

And you've built her yourself from plans, although you haven't yet brought the build to completion, right?

And at this time she has neither rig nor keels which is why you want to motor?

I think you opened a can of worms here. You suggested somewhere that you are going to be satisfied with a speed of 2 or 3 knots. By my count the distance from SD to Cabo is 750 or so nautical miles. If you were able to do that leg in one single passage that would then take you 750/3 = 250 hours or ten days.

Fair enuff, provided you can carry provisions for 4 (you mentioned a crew of 3 besides yourself). You spoke of wanting to minimize weight. Do you have a proper provisioning plan that gives you the weight of the cargo? The potable water tankage of your boat is about 42 gallons, is it not? Is that enuff for the 4 x 10 man days of the passage?

Why do you think the designer calls for 2 x 18HP diesels = 36Hp for a boat that is 5 tons light displacement, and anything up to 8 tons laden? Rule of thumb these days for HP/D ratio is 4/1, so even at 5 tons you would need 20HP. Remember that that is AT THE PROP(s). Honda O/Bs rated nominally at 18HP don't, given their dinky little low pitch props, deliver anything LIKE that thrust!

As I write, the wind off SD and all the way down Baja is about 16 or 18 knot's, I'll wager. And out of the north, maybe with a bit of west in it. In a 34 foot cat that should be good for about 10 knots on a very broad reach. So wouldn't you be better off rigging her and using her as she was meant to be used rather than spend your money on a jury rigged engine set up that wouldn't be able to keep you from broaching in a high sea?

I think I can speak for all the people I know best in this forum - my fellow moderators, many of them with thousands of miles under their keels - when I say that we all wish you all the best, and we will do what we can to help you on your way. These people with the many miles behind them can all give you unassailable advice if you will listen to them. I won't presume to speak for others in saying this, so I speak only for myself when I say: You seem to need to do a WHOLE lot of more thinking before you set out on your planned adventure!

Bonne chance!

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Old 14-03-2022, 13:26   #20
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Re: Cruising down from San Diego to mainland mexico

Rig her and sail. Otherwise the trip will be EXTREMELY uncomfortable and possibly dangerous. As others have said, outboards aren't built to run that long. If that is 100% of your propulsion options you will be in BIG trouble (without the USCG to help) if/when it dies.


It's about 2,000 miles from San Diego to Acapulco. At 2 knots that's 1000 hours or 83 24 hour days or about three months non-stop. It's not practical.


It's a wonderful trip under sail.

Leave the panga behind. Take it down on a trailer when you take your car down.
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Old 14-03-2022, 13:59   #21
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Re: Cruising down from San Diego to mainland mexico

Quote:
Ann: thank you so much for your reply and advice! Could you weather a hurricane in Puerto Marques given that it opens to the west and it seems to be surrounded by relatively hilly terrain? I plan to use two or maybe even three helical screw anchors along with really strong anchor chain and lines.
Sorry, I really do not know the answer to the question. But you will eventually get tired of living aboard off Acapulco, and want to enjoy some of the cruising Mexico has to offer, and for that, you will need anchors, rode, and mast and sails.

Sometimes, people sort of lose their drive to completion of a new boat, but you've got a tiger by the tail, because she's in practice worthless without being a whole boat. If you accept finishing her up, you'll feel really great about it.

Good luck with it all.

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Old 14-03-2022, 14:54   #22
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Re: Cruising down from San Diego to mainland mexico

You need Mexican Insurance. Not only to check in but for marina use. Documentation papers on your vessel and towed craft.
You will need fishing license's for you and all aboard. If absolutely no fishing will take place including gear than no insurance. Even a lure or line is considered necessary for a license. Fines are severe, impounding vessel and anything else related.
You might check for Covid clearance papers (health cards), but in Mexico and with tourism there that may be a simple item.
Some marinas require import permits (ordering parts etc.) but I'm not so sure this is needed now.
No weapons. Except flare and emergency/distress gear.
Passports for everyone.
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Old 14-03-2022, 15:42   #23
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Re: Cruising down from San Diego to mainland mexico

Sailor said: "I plan to use two or maybe even three helical screw anchors along with really strong anchor chain and lines."

Helical screw anchors??? Oh dear! Now we are getting REALLY worried! Have you ever been taught how to anchor a vessel safely? Do you know the physics of how a marine anchor works? We are not just tethering a goat, which is what screw anchors are for!

As for Puerto Marques Bay, the bottom there consists of a rather loose sand, does it not? How are you going to get a screw anchor to hold in that? And how would you even set such an anchor? You'd surely have to scuba dive to do it. And you won't have scuba gear aboard will you?

The wind and the swell from the Pacific are bound to be coming straight into the mouth of the bay. And the bay is a lee shore, is it not? Are you familiar with the term "lee shore"?

With a useless anchor such as a screw anchor and an inadequate engine installation, how are you going to stay safe? More particularly, given that you will be the skipper and therefore legally responsible for the safety of your crew, how are you going to keep your CREW safe?

As I said before: You need to do some more thinking!

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Old 14-03-2022, 16:05   #24
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Re: Cruising down from San Diego to mainland mexico

While I totally agree the OP should rig the boat and sail, I disagree about some of the statements about outboards being inappropriate. If correctly placed and mounted, outboards can work well on a catamaran. No, you can’t hang them on the transom, they must be moved forward so they don’t breach when in bigger waves. And 18 hp twins will move that boat at a decent speed with plenty of reliability. Twin engines are ideal as they make maneuvering a snap, plus redundancy. 400 nm should be no problem for a pair of outboards.
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Old 14-03-2022, 16:46   #25
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Re: Cruising down from San Diego to mainland mexico

have done a lot of cruising on the west coast of Mexico and in the Caribbean.

First i would skip both of those anchors (maybe the Fortress as a storm/backup) Danforth type anchors are notorius for not resetting when the boat reverses direction. Deltas look like a farm plough because they are. You will be much better off with a modern design anchor such as Mantus, Rocna, Spade etc.



As far as chain, the 10' recommendation is not reasonable at all. You will be anchoring where there are sharp rocks, especially La Cruz where lots of people lose anchors when the line rode is cut on the rocks.



You choices for navigation are fine. Have used that combo for over 20,000 miles.



Might want to consider having a smaller "come home" outboard as well. Relying on a single engine on a remote strech of coast with serious prevailing winds is a bit risky. A 10HP backup outboard might just save your a__.


But, Mexico is a great place to cruise so make sure you get there so you can enjoy it.
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Old 14-03-2022, 17:42   #26
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Re: Cruising down from San Diego to mainland mexico

Are you planning on returning to San Diego? Going down you will have wind, waves and current in your favor. Returning north will be far more difficult, with no sails and underpowered it could be more than just difficult. You might want to read The Baja Bash by Jim Elfers
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Old 14-03-2022, 20:24   #27
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Re: Cruising down from San Diego to mainland mexico

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Originally Posted by sailor4life7777 View Post
Someone gave me a large 20' fiberglass panga. It would be too heavy for me to carry it on the catamaran but I could tow it behind me. I could leave the Honda 50 hp on the panga and get two Yamaha 9.9hp outboards for the catamaran. Or I could get a smaller dinghy. What do you guys think?

Don't even think of towing the panga! This would include the poss. of having a heavy loose cannon surfing down a 10-footer for your wide stern in the prevailing and often 15-20kn or higher NW'ers. Or slewing wildly back and forth and capsizing, becoming a giant sea-anchor, which would probably rip out at least your deck cleat.

And if it's like any heavy 20' panga I've had dozens of rides south-of-the border in, two people wouldn't have a chance of man/woman-handling it on deck. Take a decent inflatable with 9+ HP outboard, which you could lash to the side of the boat if the big Honda failed...

It's about a 750nm trip (not 2000 as stated prev.), but only 120 gal. for your 50HP at partial throttle is going to be chancy IMO.
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Old 14-03-2022, 20:30   #28
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Re: Cruising down from San Diego to mainland mexico

Gee, that old phrase "Manifestly unsafe voyage" comes to mind.


I am sure by now that this skipper, however he may believe he is personally enlightened, knows little about real world cruising and/or safety.


Helix anchors? Oh, so nifty.
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Old 14-03-2022, 20:33   #29
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Re: Cruising down from San Diego to mainland mexico

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It's about a 750nm trip (not 2000 as stated prev.)
PWP, he stipulates a trip SD to Acapulco, and depending on routing it does approach 2000 miles.

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Old 14-03-2022, 20:35   #30
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Re: Cruising down from San Diego to mainland mexico

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Helix anchors? Oh, so nifty
I got the impression that he was speaking of a fixed mooring, not working anchors when he spoke of the screw anchors... and they are often used in such installations. No idea if they are appropriate for the particular location, but they work well in many seabeds.

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