War in Ukraine/Med Cruising

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

https://zn.ua/UKRAINE/rossija-nachal...-horodakh.html

(google will translate it into english enough to understand)

This report suggests there may already be ballistic missile strikes in other cities.

In any case, explosions heard in Kyiv, Kharkov, Boryspil, Dnipro, and Odessa.

(none of those cities are in Donbas!)

Not in my family's city yet either, waiting for more news, but there are many strategic targets there so it is very concerning for their safety

Holy shxt - definitely seems to be missile strikes in many areas, NOT just in Donbas - videos.

Also now reports of Tu-95 Bear Strageic Bombers in flight over Russia.

Is Putin lying, again? Donbas my ass...

[jmh2002]

Reports of Russian troops landing in Odessa.

The Russian Navy is conducting a large-scale landing operation on the Azov coast from Odessa to Mariupol.

It is reported that the Ukrainian fleet is almost destroyed as a result of preemptive missile strikes.

THIS IS A FULL SCALE ATTACK ON UKRAINE !!!

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

I don't think NATO is restricted to purely defensive actions. Nor does it specifically answer to the UN, although many of its members are influential members of the UN.

How many times to I need to say "NATO is a defense treaty"?

They can vote to do things in NATO's defense, only.

It's like a club with one purpose. Doesn't mean it's members aren't in another club, like the U.N., or acting on their own, like George Bush's "Coalition of the willing".

These are terms that really shouldn't be used interchangably, because they do have meaning.

To put this in terms people here will understand, you could be in a cruising club, a racing club, AND a participant on cruisersforum, and participate in different events with each of them.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Statistical

Because we aren't willing to die for it and maybe Ukranians aren't either but it is still absolutely clear cut wrong for Russia to invade a non-hostile neighbor.

I mean seriously man. Think about what you are writing. Saying we don't know if it is right or wrong that Russia violated the sovreign integrity of a non-hostile neighbor.

What does or doesn't happen next doesn't affect if it is right or wrong.

Its not as simple as that.. the Russian speakers in the East chose to break away from the Kyiv regime and they have been fighting to stay that way for 8 years.
The nearest possible comparison might be Ireland which for the large part chose Independence whereas the NE corner chose to stay in the UK..
Result.. violence ever since, sometimes extreme sometimes less so but always simmering just beneath the surface. Republicans vs Unionists.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Reports of Russian troops landing in Odessa.

The Russian Navy is conducting a large-scale landing operation on the Azov coast from Odessa to Mariupol.

It is reported that the Ukrainian fleet is almost destroyed as a result of preemptive missile strikes.

THIS IS A FULL SCALE ATTACK ON UKRAINE !!!

Unfortunately, this isn't that much of a surprise.

And just so nobody is confused, Putin is going to want to end this quickly with overwhelming and brutal force. Which means destroying military and high-value targets without regard to casualties.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Unfortunately, this isn't that much of a surprise.

Not a surprise to me, but some people have been denying reality all the way through this thread.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

How many times to I need to say "NATO is a defense treaty"?

They can vote to do things in NATO's defense, only.

It's like a club with one purpose. Doesn't mean it's members aren't in another club, like the U.N., or acting on their own, like George Bush's "Coalition of the willing".

These are terms that really shouldn't be used interchangably, because they do have meaning.

To put this in terms people here will understand, you could be in a cruising club, a racing club, AND a participant on cruisersforum, and participate in different events with each of them.

So this is a lie.???
On 19 March 2011, a multi-state NATO -led coalition began a military intervention in Libya, to implement United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973, in response to events during the First Libyan Civil War.
Date: 19 March 2011 – 31 October 2011,
Location: Libya

[CFS Klopas]

Originally Posted by boatman61

There's some very gullible people here..

Originally Posted by boatman61

There's not going to be a war... unless NATO starts one..
Its just Biden and Boris strutting like a pair of old fighting cocks trying vainly to look heroic and boost their negative ratings..
Boris for partying to much and Biden for achieving zip.
Troops pull back at the end of the exercises and it's.. "Look.. we cowed the Russian Bear" Strut Strut..

There sure are. Let this be a lesson about taking conservatives seriously.

[jmh2002]

The Ukrainian Ministry of Interior confirms Russian troops have crossed the border near Kharkiv (again - NOT Donbas).

Ukraine has declared Martial Law.

This clearly a puntive operation against Ukraine.

How many will die?

[jmh2002]

Airfields and military headquarters have been attacked in Kyiv

I think this will be out to the east and north east of Kyiv, not in the city centre of course.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by CFS Klopas

There sure are. Let this be a lesson about taking conservatives seriously.

Its Conservatives who are supplying British arms to Ukraine..
But you got what you've pushed for for a year at least.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by boatman61

So this is a lie.???
On 19 March 2011, a multi-state NATO -led coalition began a military intervention in Libya, to implement United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973, in response to events during the First Libyan Civil War.
Date: 19 March 2011 – 31 October 2011,
Location: Libya

Well, good point.

There's a little bit of a terminology problem there. Because all NATO countries didn't agree, it was really just some NATO members (France, UK, US) "voluntarily" enforcing the UN resolution. They did ultimately get some support from NATO resources and other nations, but it didn't require support of ALL NATO members, if that makes any sense.

It wasn't as a response to an attack on NATO, but attacks on civilians, and in enforcement of a UN resolution.

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

How many times to I need to say "NATO is a defense treaty"?

They can vote to do things in NATO's defense, only.

It's like a club with one purpose. Doesn't mean it's members aren't in another club, like the U.N., or acting on their own, like George Bush's "Coalition of the willing".

These are terms that really shouldn't be used interchangably, because they do have meaning.

To put this in terms people here will understand, you could be in a cruising club, a racing club, AND a participant on cruisersforum, and participate in different events with each of them.

I admit I'm not an expert, but I think the mutual defense clause is part of the original North Atlantic Treaty, but is not the limiting scope of that treaty nor of NATO. NATO itself is, I think, is more properly defined as a military alliance.

[jmh2002]

Stand Strong Ukraine.

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by boatman61

But you got what you've pushed for for a year at least.

I guess we're back to this again?