War in Ukraine/Med Cruising

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by boatman61

The gauntlet has just been thrown at NATO.

Ukraine is not a member of NATO. This has nothing to do with NATO by its charter NATO can't get involved.

Now one or more NATO members may take actions militarily (unlikely) or otherwise but even that is those nations acting as independent nations not an action by NATO. NATO is a defensive organization it exists primarily to ensure that in the event that a NATO nation is attacked the aggesor will face overwhelming superiority as an attack on one is an attack on all and no beligerant on the planet has the conventional military to match all of NATO.

[Muaddib1116]

In what way? NATO has been saying for weeks that they won't do anything militarily unless a NATO country is threatened. The most that will happen now is increased economic sanctions. The US public doesn't have the interest or appetite for more overseas conflict, and without the US leading the charge, nobody else will do anything either.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Statistical

Ukraine is not a member of NATO. This has nothing to do with NATO by its charter NATO can't get involved.

Now one or more NATO members may take actions militarily (unlikely) or otherwise but even that is those nations acting as independent nations not an action from NATO.

I have never said it was..
Just watched Putin state no interference by 'anyone' will be tolerated.. retaliation will be swift and severe.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I have never said it was..
Just watched Putin state no interference by 'anyone' will be tolerated.. retaliation will be swift and severe.

No gauntlet has been thrown down for NATO. That statement implies a NATO response is possible. No response FROM NATO is possible because no NATO nation has been attacked.

Period.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Statistical

There is a clear right and wrong about this.

Russia is invading and annexing a non-hostile neighbor that is wrong.

What Ukraine does or doesn't do about that is up to Ukranians but there is absolutely a clear cut right and wrong.

If it's so clear-cut, why isn't the West rushing to Ukraine's defense?

Because, reasons!... but it's wrong!, so we insist on war, but we'll sit it out thanks.

The whole thing stinks. All over.

[Muaddib1116]

What? Putin is the only one who has insisted on war.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Statistical

No gauntlet has been thrown down for NATO. That statement implies a NATO response is possible. No response FROM NATO is possible because no NATO nation has been attacked.

Period.

Libya never attacked any NATO country yet the UN authorised their attack on Libya..
Your waving a phoney flag.. or is Russia to strong to take on.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Libya never attacked any NATO country yet the UN authorised their attack on Libya..
Your waving a phoney flag.. or is Russia to strong to take on.

Again, you can't confuse NATO with the UN.

NATO is a self-defense treaty among 30 countries. They have nothing to do with Libya.

UN resolutions are a different thing. Russia is one of 5 permanent members of the UN, which means they can VETO resolutions. Unfortunately, that was the only way the UN could get those 5 members to join.

You can expect very strong sanctions economic against Russia. Clearly, this isn't worrying Putin too much.

[jmh2002]

https://zn.ua/UKRAINE/rossija-nachal...-horodakh.html

(google will translate it into english enough to understand)

This report suggests there may already be ballistic missile strikes in other cities.

In any case, explosions heard in Kyiv, Kharkov, Boryspil, Dnipro, and Odessa.

(none of those cities are in Donbas!)

Not in my family's city yet either, waiting for more news, but there are many strategic targets there so it is very concerning for their safety

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

If it's so clear-cut, why isn't the West rushing to Ukraine's defense?

Because, reasons!... but it's wrong!, so we insist on war, but we'll sit it out thanks.

The whole thing stinks. All over.

Because we aren't willing to die for it and maybe Ukranians aren't either but it is still absolutely clear cut wrong for Russia to invade a non-hostile neighbor.

I mean seriously man. Think about what you are writing. Saying we don't know if it is right or wrong that Russia violated the sovreign integrity of a non-hostile neighbor.

What does or doesn't happen next doesn't affect if it is right or wrong.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Again, you can't confuse NATO with the UN.

NATO is a self-defense treaty among 30 countries. They have nothing to do with Libya.

UN resolutions are a different thing. Russia is one of 5 permanent members of the UN, which means they can VETO resolutions.

You can expect very strong sanctions economic against Russia. Clearly, this isn't worrying Putin too much.

Again.. check your facts..
On 19 March 2011, a multi-state NATO -led coalition began a military intervention in Libya, to implement United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973, in response to events during the First Libyan Civil War.
Date: 19 March 2011 – 31 October 2011,
Location: Libya

aka.. Damn.. Gaddafi is still alive..

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Libya never attacked any NATO country yet the UN authorised their attack on Libya..
Your waving a phoney flag.. or is Russia to strong to take on.

NATO is not the UN. The UN is not NATO. I mean that should be obvious given they have different names.

NATO can only take military action in response to
a) an attack on a NATO member (obligation)
b) when authorized by UN security resolution

Given Russia, China, and US have vetoes on the security resolution "b" can never involve force against those nations. That leaves only "a" since Russia is the beligerant here. Ukraine is not a NATO member so that is also not available.

Any response military or otherwise may come from one or more nations acting independently but it won't come form NATO.

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by Statistical

NATO is not the UN. The UN is not NATO. I mean that should be obvious given they have different names.

NATO is the muscle of the UN. When it want it to be.

[Muaddib1116]

I don't think NATO is restricted to purely defensive actions. Nor does it specifically answer to the UN, although many of its members are influential members of the UN.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Statistical

NATO is not the UN. The UN is not NATO. I mean that should be obvious given they have different names.

There's some very gullible people here..