War in Ukraine/Med Cruising

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by hedgeworth

Holy crap you guys found common ground

We always have.. we both love sailing..

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by hedgeworth

Holy crap you guys found common ground

crazy things happen from time to time

[hedgeworth]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

crazy things happen from time to time

I think I might need a personal moment to collect myself

[jmh2002]

Someone doing stupid stuff or making mistakes (sometimes better understood after the fact) should not be used an excuse for other people to do it too, or keep doing it.

And in relation to Russia themselves, they are constantly ignoring international norms regarding a great many things.

The shifting of borders by force and without any agreement by anybody is absolutely inexusable.

Note that Russia is without any one single ally or supporter in relation to this - except maybe Belarus which is maybe not even a sovereign country anymore - even China doesn't seem to know what to say and is settling for 'it would be better to deescalate'.

Saying someone else did something else somewhere else some time else shouldn't be used an excuse.

This is why I'm calling out the apologists filling the thread with comments along the lines of 'oh but the USA did XXX'.

That just doesn't fly.

[jmh2002]

The separatists have officially requested 'help' from Russia to fight Ukraine.

And I see very concerning news:

Blinken: Russia will launch a full-scale invasion of Ukraine before the end of the night.

Dzerkalo Tyzhnia: Airports in Kharkiv, Dnipro and Zaporizhzhia are blocking runways in case of attack.

Russia may be preparing a provocation in Crimea, creating a pretext for an invasion of Ukraine - Kuleba - The chemical plant "Titan" in Armyansk may be at the epicenter of events

UN Security Council will hold urgent meeting at 4:30 a.m. Kyiv time.


Shxt Shxt Shxt

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

This is why I'm calling out the apologists filling the thread with comments along the lines of 'oh but the USA did XXX'.

That just doesn't fly.

I agree. There's no "there are bad guys on both sides" argument to be made here.

Putin is getting ready to invade another sovereign country and kill a bunch of people because they're not bending to his political will.

This isn't excusable. There is no acceptable rationale for it. It's not in defense of Russia. It's because Putin wants to.

So far, everything Putin has said turned out to be a lie (it's just a military exercise, we're not going to invade, we're withdrawing, Ukraine isn't even a state), and everything announced by U.S. intelligence has said (Yes, they intend to invade, they're attempting a false flag operation, they're not withdrawing, they're still arriving and setting up an invasion) has turned out to be 100% verifiable truth.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Russia may be preparing a provocation in Crimea, creating a pretext for an invasion of Ukraine - Kuleba - The chemical plant "Titan" in Armyansk may be at the epicenter of events

https://zn.ua/POLITICS/rossija-mozhe...nu-kuleba.html

'Alarming reports from Crimea. The entire night shift of the Titan chemical plant in Armyansk was evacuated from the facility.'

People are posting on Facebook about columns of Russian military in Crimea advancing towards the Ukrainian border

[jmh2002]

Russia has now closed it's airspace along the Ukrainian border.

Ukraine as also closed all of it's airspace.

It appears the attack may be imminent.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Someone doing stupid stuff or making mistakes (sometimes better understood after the fact) should not be used an excuse for other people to do it too, or keep doing it.

And in relation to Russia themselves, they are constantly ignoring international norms regarding a great many things.

The shifting of borders by force and without any agreement by anybody is absolutely inexusable.

Note that Russia is without any one single ally or supporter in relation to this - except maybe Belarus which is maybe not even a sovereign country anymore - even China doesn't seem to know what to say and is settling for 'it would be better to deescalate'.

Saying someone else did something else somewhere else some time else shouldn't be used an excuse.

This is why I'm calling out the apologists filling the thread with comments along the lines of 'oh but the USA did XXX'.

That just doesn't fly.

Seeing as I am one who has made statements along those lines I guess your calling me out.. Fine by me.
If your not up to folks discussing Putin's motivation and self justification that's your problem not mine.
Its an open thread which has proved to be an education for some (including me) on the history of the region and background to the events leading up to the situation.. so no apologies from me.
Happy Thursday..

[letsgetsailing3]

The UN Secretary General just asked President Putin to stop invading Ukraine at the UN Security Council.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Seeing as I am one who has made statements along those lines I guess your calling me out.. Fine by me.
If your not up to folks discussing Putin's motivation and self justification that's your problem not mine.
Its an open thread which has proved to be an education for some (including me)on the history of the region and background to the events leading up to the situation.. so no apologies from me.
Happy Thursday..

Well, just be careful what you listen to. Because some of the things presented here by even knowledgeable people have been opinion, not fact, and didn't hold up to scrutiny.

The fact is that Russia is invading Ukraine, without provocation.

Zelensky called Putin today. Putin refused to answer.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by boatman61

If your not up to folks discussing Putin's motivation and self justification that's your problem not mine.

Actually I have written some long and detailed posts here regarding Putin's motivation and self justification so I may have been one of the people educating you.

What I am calling out is the apologists, suggesting that because XYZ country did XYZ in XYZ time, it's ok for Putin and Russia to do it again now.

It's not.

Let's not keep making the same mistakes.

[atoll]

Putin announces special military operation,aimed at freeing the Dombass,calls for Ukranian military to lay down arms.
goal is to demilitarize ukraine,and de-nazification

[boatman61]

And I thank you for those contributions, they were very interesting however, I will continue to follow my interpretations from the various sources and draw my own conclusions.
Letsgetsailing3.. I'm always careful around people, I learnt long ago the one's who approach with a smile often are hiding a dagger behind their backs.
As for sailing in the Eastern Med.. it'll get interesting..

[jmh2002]

PUTIN DECLARES WAR ON UKRAINE
https://kyivindependent.com/uncatego...ar-on-ukraine/

"Russia’s President Vladimir Putin announced that Russia will conduct “a special military operation” to “demilitarize” Ukraine, de facto declaring a war on Ukraine.

In a televized announcement that aired just before 5 a.m. Kyiv time, Putin said that NATO was threatening the existence of Russia and that to protect it, he is sending Russian military into Ukraine."