To the European citizens around here, how are you running business from the boat?

[Franziska]

Hi,

I'm running a freelance visualisation & VR company (www.das3dstudio.de) in Germany and plan to take it with me when moving onboard.
Most of the work I do is remote and for the odd local stuff I have someone who can handle that part for me.

Our plan is to stay in Europe until 2022 and possibly in the winter 2022/23 leave towards Africa and the Caribbean.
My boyfriend will go into early retirement in spring 2021.
Initially we may spent perhaps 3-4months per year in Germany if everything goes to plan.

I'd like to hear from other German and fellow European freelancers who are cruising how they handle health insurance and taxation of their freelance business.

The main reason I am asking is the state health insurance. I am currently paying that via the Künstlersozialkasse which treats their members as if they are employed.
As far as I am aware that insurance does not cover anything abroad if one is out of the country for more than 6 weeks. So there is no point in keeping that.
There are some special health insurances for sailing people which were about 50€ a month the last time I took it. My previous health insurance (TK) accepted that as follow on and I could leave them and re-enter the TK upon returning.

I did not run my own show at the time though and I am wondering if I can keep the business legally in Germany registered for taxation and not have the need to pay into the local system.

Secondly, what's your tax setup? What VAT do you charge?

I'd appreciate it if you can share your thoughts on this, if you are in a similar situation (solo freelance).

I prefer a simple workable setup, my income is not so huge that I need complicated tax avoidence schemes.
Still obviously I do not want to give money away either.

Thanks!

[boatman61]

When I had my last boat I had a Third Party Liability insurance with Pantaenius UK along with their separate Death/Accident/Sickness Policy up to £1 million..
If I recall it totalled around £249 for the last annual premium before I sold the boat a couple of years back.
It also temporarily covered any crew whilst they were on board.

[Franziska]

Thanks for the British perspective Boatie, interesting, but honestly, I'm not so much after how the boat/crew are generally insured but more after the specifics of running a business from the boat and the associated tax and social security aspects.

In Germany there is a mandatory health insurance & I wonder how to deal with that if the business is registered there for taxes while the employee is out of the country most of the time.

Thanks anyway & fair winds!

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Hi,

I'm running a freelance visualisation & VR company (www.das3dstudio.de) in Germany and plan to take it with me when moving onboard.
Most of the work I do is remote and for the odd local stuff I have someone who can handle that part for me.

Our plan is to stay in Europe until 2022 and possibly in the winter 2022/23 leave towards Africa and the Caribbean.
My boyfriend will go into early retirement in spring 2021.
Initially we may spent perhaps 3-4months per year in Germany if everything goes to plan.

I'd like to hear from other German and fellow European freelancers who are cruising how they handle health insurance and taxation of their freelance business.

The main reason I am asking is the state health insurance. I am currently paying that via the Künstlersozialkasse which treats their members as if they are employed.
As far as I am aware that insurance does not cover anything abroad if one is out of the country for more than 6 weeks. So there is no point in keeping that.
There are some special health insurances for sailing people which were about 50€ a month the last time I took it. My previous health insurance (TK) accepted that as follow on and I could leave them and re-enter the TK upon returning.

I did not run my own show at the time though and I am wondering if I can keep the business legally in Germany registered for taxation and not have the need to pay into the local system.

Secondly, what's your tax setup? What VAT do you charge?

I'd appreciate it if you can share your thoughts on this, if you are in a similar situation (solo freelance).

I prefer a simple workable setup, my income is not so huge that I need complicated tax avoidence schemes.
Still obviously I do not want to give money away either.

Thanks!

Hey, we're too poor to afford health insurance, but my gf pays a company in Poland to manage her taxes. We're actually able to deduct much of our electrical systems from tax (solar panels etc), and mobile phones and phone data too, which really helps. I avoid tax completely by doing freelance work and chartering. Technically I'm not eligible for tax until I have lived somewhere more than 6 months out of a tax year anyway.

[Franziska]

Thanks.

My boyfriend will keep his health insurance as he is over 62. I'll look into the option of perhaps getting under his umbrella with a family insurance. That would mean marriage, but we are long enough together that that is an option anyway :-)

Alternatively I'd afford 50€ monthly, but certainly not several 100€ per month.

You say that you are freelancing, doesn't that mean you need to write invoices than? How do you handle VAT?

Feel free to answer by PM if you are uneasy to write details openly.

Originally Posted by Captn_Black

Hey, we're too poor to afford health insurance, but my gf pays a company in Poland to manage her taxes. We're actually able to deduct much of our electrical systems from tax, and mobile phones and phone data too, which really helps. I avoid tax completely by doing freelance work and chartering.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Thanks.

My boyfriend will keep his health insurance as he is over 62. I'll look into the option of perhaps getting under his umbrella with a family insurance. That would mean marriage, but we are long enough together that that is an option anyway :-)

Alternatively I'd afford 50€ monthly, but certainly not several 100€ per month.

You say that you are freelancing, doesn't that mean you need to write invoices than? How do you handle VAT?

Feel free to answer by PM if you are uneasy to write details openly.

There is only money going into my account (the one I show customs) sent to me from my gf's account, so not taxable. Getting paid in cash or a different account would also avoid tax problems, though ofc I wouldn't do such a thing...

Though mostly I avoid difficult questions by not staying in one place for more than 6 months out of a tax year, I'm all legal here right now anyway as my business has come to a halt from the virus. Even if business resumes soon I would probably not reach the taxable threshold (about 2000 euro in most places) before I leave anyway. Paypal is no longer an easy way to avoid tax as they start asking questions after you make 2000 euro in a year.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Thanks for the British perspective Boatie, interesting, but honestly, I'm not so much after how the boat/crew are generally insured but more after the specifics of running a business from the boat and the associated tax and social security aspects.

In Germany there is a mandatory health insurance & I wonder how to deal with that if the business is registered there for taxes while the employee is out of the country most of the time.

Thanks anyway & fair winds!

In the UK Health Insurance is also mandatory as is Unemployment and State Pension.. 11% off ones pre tax income to be precise however whist abroad private health insurance is always a good idea if you are not covered by your country..
For around £50/year I figured better safe than sorry but then I do cover a lot of ground.
As for tax.. I keep myself below the UK threshold so its a modest but trouble free life..
PS... I live in Portugal and pay cash for treatment but since residency I now pay the same as the natives..
€4.50 to see the the doctor, €7.00 for a blood test instead of the €25 previously etc, etc..

[skipmac]

My accountant married a German resident and moved to Germany about ten years ago and became a permanent resident of Germany. Then he retired from Volkswagen and they moved to Greece but she still runs a business from her home.

I'll ask her if she has any insights on your situation.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by skipmac

My accountant married a German resident and moved to Germany about ten years ago and became a permanent resident of Germany. Then he retired from Volkswagen and they moved to Greece but she still runs a business from her home.

I'll ask her if she has any insights on your situation.

Yea, I'd be interested to know about that too, my gf is also a German national due to her previous marriage. Not sure if it would be better for her to base her business there instead.

[Franziska]

That would be fabulous. Thank you.

Bear in mind I'm probably not generating the same income as a consultant to Volkswagen ;-) does.

Originally Posted by skipmac

My accountant married a German resident and moved to Germany about ten years ago and became a permanent resident of Germany. Then he retired from Volkswagen and they moved to Greece but she still runs a business from her home.

I'll ask her if she has any insights on your situation.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Franziska

That would be fabulous. Thank you.

Bear in mind I'm probably not generating the same income as a consultant to Volkswagen ;-) does.

Well I think her husband was just a mid level management so not super wealthy. Their home in Germany was nice but modest. However they had
enough to sell the home in Germany and buy a few acres on a Greek island with a few olive trees and a beautiful view of the ocean. They built a house and just moved in a few months ago.

[Franziska]

Good to hear. Looking forward to the feedback from them (if you can get some.) Thanks.

Originally Posted by skipmac

Well I think her husband was just a mid level management so not super wealthy. Their home in Germany was nice but modest. However they had
enough to sell the home in Germany and buy a few acres on a Greek island with a few olive trees and a beautiful view of the ocean. They built a house and just moved in a few months ago.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Good to hear. Looking forward to the feedback from them (if you can get some.) Thanks.

Ditto. Would like to know about their policy for tax deductibles - in Poland we can only claim monthly, and any excess doesn't carry over to the next month.
And we haven't been able to add myself as her employee, or deduct the work that I do for installing the tax deductible items.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Good to hear. Looking forward to the feedback from them (if you can get some.) Thanks.

Got a quick message from her last night (she's currently really busy with doing corporate taxes for US clients).

Med insurance for them isn't a problem since they stayed in the EU. So as long as they are in Greece they are covered but when she comes back to the US, same deal as you, after six weeks she is not covered.

No word on tax status. Since her business and all the clients are US based I am guessing she deals only with US taxes but will have to ask her when she's finished with this week's work.