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Old 01-04-2019, 10:56   #16
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Re: Occasional chartering in Italy, big fines and the law

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Originally Posted by joed View Post
Hello all
so i am american, born and raised, and was in the process of buying a sailboat in Italy and do some charters etc. Since i have a lot of family there one of my cousins an accountant went to the Italian Coast Guard to ask a few question to the head of the port... (a friend of his)

He told him straight out do not put an Italian Flag on her if you have a choice>> WTH.... We won't board an American flag vessel WTH

so i have no answers any longer and most likely dropping the whole idea..
If you like to do "occasionaly" charter in Italy you have no choice, you must have an Italian Flag boat!

If you only like to keep the boat in EU longer than 18 months (and don't loose her VAT status) you can have any EU flag;
as your cousin is a accountant I think he has no problem to advise you the best EU flag and the way to obtain it.
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:06   #17
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Re: Occasional chartering in Italy, big fines and the law

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Originally Posted by Black Eagle View Post
There are two different arguments:
"Occasionaly" charter, and "regular" charter.

"Occasionaly" charter is governed by the rules of every single country (and not under EU rules), and they are valid for boats with the flag of that country only, and with boarding and landing passengers in the waters of that country only!

"Regular" charter is also governed by the rules of every single country (but it also meets the European rules), and if one likes to do that it's better find the best EU country where open the company, so if you have a charter company with tax domicile in any of the EU countries (and this means that the boat must be register under that company, and so of course, with an EU flag), you can do charter in all EU countries without problems.


I'm not an accountant (so I may be wrong), but I think the best place to open a charter company in EU are Malta, Luxembourg, Estonia
Surely not Italy, too much taxes, but mostly too much bureaucracy
Unfortunately this is not true.. first all, let's agree on the term of chartering as different people may have different understanding. Chartering is a commercial activity when someone or a certain company rent his boat to a third person for a period of time, against certain amount of money. If the owner (or his representative is on board , it's a skippered charter , otherwise, it's a bareboat charter. There is no such a "occasional" or "regular" chartering; chartering is charthering.

In many countries, at least in Turkey and in Greece, probably also in Croatia, the boats are registered either commercial or private. They are subject to different taxes and conditions. Moreover, privately registered boats are not allowed to carry out any commercial activities, thus, chartering.
EU rules unfortunately doesn't work here, you cannot charter in Turkey, in Croatia or in Greece with any flag other than the country's flag where you operate. One UK flagged boat has been fined 5.000 € for illegal chartering in Greece. In Croatia, it's the same. In Turkey , this was allowed, but this year they inserted a serious taxes and starting from next year , it will be completely banned.

This is (probably) based on cabotage laws which reads : "The report published today, titled Cabotage Laws of the World, has identified for the first time ninety-one member states of the United Nations that have cabotage laws restricting foreign activity in their domestic coastal trades."

Chartering is considered as a "foreign activity (read it foreign flagged boat) in their domestic coastal waters (read it chartering) have restrictions.

Cheers

Yeloya
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:42   #18
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Re: Occasional chartering in Italy, big fines and the law

"There is no such a "occasional" or "regular" chartering; chartering is charthering."

Sorry, You are wrong!

This is the officila site of Italy Taxes bureau
https://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/wp...municazioniint
I'm sorry there is not the english version.
As I said some countries have their own rule for "occasional" charter with private boats!!!

Turkey is not an EU country!

But in Greece and Croatia EU rules works as in any other EU country,

I did charter in Greece for the last 4 years with my Italian Flag (and my commercial boat registered by my charter company) without any problemens at all;
and I have many colleagues that do it in Croatia (but only in recent years, because Croatia has only entered the EU a few years ago)

The problemens start if you want to do charter with a "private" boat,
as you said, you can do that only with commercial boat!
May be tha UK boat you are talking about was not a commercial vessel!
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Old 01-04-2019, 12:15   #19
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Re: Occasional chartering in Italy, big fines and the law

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Eagle View Post
"There is no such a "occasional" or "regular" chartering; chartering is charthering."

Sorry, You are wrong!

This is the officila site of Italy Taxes bureau
https://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/wp...municazioniint
I'm sorry there is not the english version.
As I said some countries have their own rule for "occasional" charter with private boats!!!

Turkey is not an EU country!

But in Greece and Croatia EU rules works as in any other EU country,

I did charter in Greece for the last 4 years with my Italian Flag (and my commercial boat registered by my charter company) without any problemens at all;
and I have many colleagues that do it in Croatia (but only in recent years, because Croatia has only entered the EU a few years ago)

The problemens start if you want to do charter with a "private" boat,
as you said, you can do that only with commercial boat!
May be tha UK boat you are talking about was not a commercial vessel!
Well, we are saying the same thing. Privately registered boat cannot charter whether it's occosional or regular.

Ahh, thanks for reminding me that Turkey is not in EU, hopefully we will never be. You have enough problems, we don't want to be a part of it ..
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Old 01-04-2019, 12:27   #20
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Re: Occasional chartering in Italy, big fines and the law

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Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
.......

Ahh, thanks for reminding me that Turkey is not in EU, hopefully we will never be. You have enough problems, we don't want to be a part of it ..

You are lucky, stay away from EU madhouse
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