4 in 5 UK Boat Owners May Quit Cruising Due to Post-Brexit Schengen Rules

[Sand crab]

I lived in Montana for 18 years. Now I live in Washington State. Montana has no sales tax but does have state income tax. Washington has sales tax but no income tax. Pick your poison.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I lived in Montana for 18 years. Now I live in Washington State. Montana has no sales tax but does have state income tax. Washington has sales tax but no income tax. Pick your poison.

Death and Taxes

[Montanan]

Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs

Guidance
Import goods to the UK temporarily
Use Temporary Admission to pay no duty on goods you temporarily import from outside the UK and then re-export.

Having a Temporary Admission authorisation will allow you to keep your imported goods in the UK for up to 2 years before being re-exported. You will not be required to pay import duty or VAT on these goods.

You must apply for authorisation to use Temporary Admission.

Goods with different time limits
Some goods have a different time limit before they must be re-exported, you can check the time limits in the table.

Specifically as to private vessels:

Private sea and canal transport 18 months


Link:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/import-g...eu-temporarily




Guidance
Apply to import goods temporarily to the UK
How to apply for Temporary Admission to import goods into the UK and use them for up to 2 years or more, before re-exporting them.

Link:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-to...o-the-uk-or-eu

Who can apply
You can apply if you’re the person using the goods or you’re arranging for the goods to be used on your behalf.

Using Temporary Admission will depend on whether you’re established inside or outside the UK. Reference further below

You must also:

be financially solvent
have a good history of compliance with customs requirements
have (or be able to keep) appropriate records
You cannot apply if you’re a:

freight forwarder
fast parcel operator
customs agent


Guidance
Check if you’re established in the UK for customs
Find out whether you're established in the UK for customs purposes.

Link:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-if...eu-for-customs

A person or business needs to be established in the UK to meet a number of customs rules. This includes being able to get a wide range of customs authorisations and simplifications for example:

a special procedures authorisation
making simplified customs declarations
Authorised Economic Operator (AEO) authorisation
a comprehensive customs guarantee

What established means:

Individual
You are established in the UK when you have a residence in the UK which you live in for at least 183 days a year.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by pk999

Either way it looks like the UK wants to claim multiple VAT payments for boats kept out the UK for periods of more than 3 years. I am not aware of any other items that are subject to VAT multiple times in the same ownership, or when sold second hand.

If anyone knows differently, please advise.

I think that is pretty much it. For a few people life isn't fair. However, for the majority who fly to Spain for 2 weeks on the beach and then go home back to the factories, well they will be asking what is the problem? 90 days in the EU is a huge amount for holidays and your posh yacht that has just been taxed again isn't going to get much sympathy from the average blue collar worker.

Visiting Northern Ireland by yacht is going to be the interesting one, that is a right kerfuffle.

Pete

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I lived in Montana for 18 years. Now I live in Washington State. Montana has no sales tax but does have state income tax. Washington has sales tax but no income tax. Pick your poison.

Ha, so that got me to thinking creatively.

Earn your money in Washington State and make your purchases in Montana.

My daughter moved to Portland, Oregon. She and her fiance live in Oregon yet he works in Vancouver in Washington. Oregon has zero statewide sales tax, but some cities have local sales tax. So I am wondering if his income is taxed in Oregon where he resides, or is it tax exempt because he earns it in Washington. I do realize there is a lot of cross border purchases by Washington residents in Portland Oregon.

Ah, 50 States and 50 different ways to do stuff.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by Greg K

Not sure what all that means, but just to give you an example of what I'm talking about, here's a very recent email reply I received from McMaster- Car to the following inquiry:

From: -------mail.com
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 7:52 AM

Feedback Email
Message
Are you able to ship to Spain? Could you please let me know? I need some imperial sized SS bolts and aluminum tubing. Unfortunately, only metric here. With thanks and best regards, Greg
==========
Hi Greg,

Thank you for considering McMaster-Carr for your purchase. However, we will not accept orders from you due to the cost of complying with US export regulations.

Shane

This is completely normal. Generally I've used an agent (like Mail Boxes Etc.) to make shipments from US to other countries. The service does not cost that much. You give the US company the shipping address of the agent in the US, and the agent takes care of all the crap required to export to the foreign country. They will ship the items usually to the nearest airport, but in one case the agent drove 90 minutes each way to deliver a transmission to me.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

what you describe is anecdotical evidence of hyperinflation. Sure, everyone belief is they deserved it. But reality is hyperinflation is here now and destroying everything of real value.

What is meant by "destroys"? Actually inflation only destroys the value of currency. Avoid "safe" fixed income investments.

[cooper1991]

Yes, it's the people not the boat that's the issue as EU allows 18 months before you need to move your boat (for a day).

For liveaboards, it's just a case of planning routes and stays that include Turkey, Morocco, Gibraltar, Tunisia and maybe Northern Cyprus & San Marino (non-EU).

Cross Atlantic journeys also an issue as Canary Islands (Spain), Azores and Madeira all sit under the EU tent, albeit Cape Verde does not.

The other issue is berthing prices and availability in the above non-EU countries as well as airports (that fly to your destination).

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by cooper1991

Yes, it's the people not the boat that's the issue as EU allows 18 months before you need to move your boat (for a day).

For liveaboards, it's just a case of planning routes and stays that include Turkey, Morocco, Gibraltar, Tunisia and maybe Northern Cyprus & San Marino (non-EU).

Cross Atlantic journeys also an issue as Canary Islands (Spain), Azores and Madeira all sit under the EU tent, albeit Cape Verde does not.

The other issue is berthing prices and availability in the above non-EU countries as well as airports (that fly to your destination).

I thought Gibraltar was now in the EU..

On 31 December 2020, Spain and the United Kingdom reached an agreement in principle under which Gibraltar would join the European Union's Schengen Area.[37] This clears the way for the European Union and the UK to start formal negotiations on the matter.[38] Elements of the proposed agreement are:[38][39]

Gibraltar (air)ports become entry points of the Schengen area, under responsibility of Spain [40]
The border controls will be performed by Frontex-personnel [40]
unrestricted movement of goods
arrangements in the field of "environment, the level playing field, social security coordination, citizens’ rights, data and matters related to continued document recognition" [40]
the relationship between Gibraltar and the European Union in areas of EU competence
Gibraltar can offer residence permit on its own decision
Visa for visiting Gibraltar will be Schengen visas, mainly issued by Spain
The arrangements are implemented for "an initial period of four years"[40]

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by waterman46

What is meant by "destroys"? Actually inflation only destroys the value of currency. Avoid "safe" fixed income investments.

erodes confidence and destroys moral rules. Also one can notice everything produced these days is worse quality than say 10 years ago, yet price climbing - hidden inflation. MSM scream no inflation, following orders of corrupt elite so delaying 'awakening process'.

Yup, that is hyperinflation my friend. and will accelerate to uncharted territory. You will get new USD, EUR, JPY .... backed by bitcoin

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

erodes confidence and destroys moral rules. Also one can notice everything produced these days is worse quality than say 10 years ago, yet price climbing - hidden inflation. MSM scream no inflation, following orders of corrupt elite so delaying 'awakening process'.

Yup, that is hyperinflation my friend. and will accelerate to uncharted territory. You will get new USD, EUR, JPY .... backed by bitcoin

Naah.. Its called ripping off a gullible population into keeping on buying new $hit by building failure modes into most things.. your expensive phone starts playing up but luckily Apple has just made a new model.. your computer suddenly starts losing races with a snail.. your car can't meet new emission controls...
Its called Growth.. the Great Religion.. Build back Better..

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Naah.. Its called ripping off a gullible population into keeping on buying new $hit by building failure modes into most things.. your expensive phone starts playing up but luckily Apple has just made a new model.. your computer suddenly starts losing races with a snail.. your car can't meet new emission controls...
Its called Growth.. the Great Religion.. Build back Better..

Yeah, what you say ends up increasing inflation basically selling worse product at same price, which is effectively increase in price but stats do not capture. We had nice experience with our furler that was very difficult to rotate. tried all and could not make it better so i resigned to replace. researched and our model is no longer produced - 8 years old boat. Also no spare I could buy. So one left with option to buy new. And ex factory you fork around 10 k usd. And all the fees and installation, you look at 15+k USD just for furler !!

So I had another thorough look & workout and did make it roll again freely Zero cost

[Anders]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I thought Gibraltar was now in the EU..

On 31 December 2020, Spain and the United Kingdom reached an agreement in principle under which Gibraltar would join the European Union's Schengen Area.[37] This clears the way for the European Union and the UK to start formal negotiations on the matter.[38] Elements of the proposed agreement are:[38][39]

Gibraltar (air)ports become entry points of the Schengen area, under responsibility of Spain [40]
The border controls will be performed by Frontex-personnel [40]
unrestricted movement of goods
arrangements in the field of "environment, the level playing field, social security coordination, citizens’ rights, data and matters related to continued document recognition" [40]
the relationship between Gibraltar and the European Union in areas of EU competence
Gibraltar can offer residence permit on its own decision
Visa for visiting Gibraltar will be Schengen visas, mainly issued by Spain
The arrangements are implemented for "an initial period of four years"[40]

Gibraltar is not in the EU but will soon be in Schengen.

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by Anders

Gibraltar is not in the EU but will soon be in Schengen.

Gibraltar won't be the first country / territory going this way. It has been the case for some time for Switzerland. Works quite well.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

Gibraltar won't be the first country / territory going this way. It has been the case for some time for Switzerland. Works quite well.

This still does not answer the question/statement about still being able to use Gibraltar as a tool to reboot a boat's 18mths VAT avoidance status.
I think this will cease to be an option as borders will be controlled by Spanish border control at ports at the airport.