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Old 26-02-2019, 03:48   #1
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AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

Hi all, we are preparing to sail to Indonesia from Australia next month. I have been using the phone app OnCourse last year to transmit my boats data and location, boat speed, direction of travel etc. and also to see what vessels may be approaching. It has been very useful on night sails and dependable. have not had it fail yet. This system relies on the Mobile network on the Australian coast. My question is - has anyone checked into Indonesia recently using just the app as your AIS source? I've read it is a requirement of the Indonesian govt. to have a working AIS transceiver and that they come on board to check it and take photos of the unit. Have anyone experienced this and are using the mobile app as your form of AIS?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 26-02-2019, 06:09   #2
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Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

As it is dependent on the cellular network, it can't be considered to be working in real time... I would be very surprised if it was acceptable - as soon as you are out of reliable cell coverage, it won't work. In busy waters the delay could be critical.
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Old 26-02-2019, 06:13   #3
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Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

How can they enforce this, for poverty-stricken third-worlders just passing through, say subsistence fishermen?
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Old 26-02-2019, 06:35   #4
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Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

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How can they enforce this, for poverty-stricken third-worlders just passing through, say subsistence fishermen?
I'm not familiar with the referenced policy but there is usually selective enforcement of such regulations.

It otherwise makes sense to have an AIS transceiver, even if not broadcasting in sketchy areas.
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Old 26-02-2019, 08:53   #5
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Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

Sure if you can afford it. Should not IMO be mandatory for a small boat, no engine etc
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Old 26-02-2019, 09:49   #6
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Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

I thought the way it worked was, IF you're a nationally documented vessel (USA COD, for example), AND you comply with all of your country's requirements, THEN another country could not enforce a contrary requirement on you? If this was not the case, any ship crossing international borders would have a huge amount of equipment, etc, in order to comply with all requirements.

I took a class about cruising in Canadian waters, and this is how it was explained to us (and it makes sense.) The Canadian officials know the US documentation, safety, placard, etc, requirements. Miss even 1 and all bets are off ... you then have to be compliant with ALL Canadian requirements and can be ticketed for each infraction. (And there are a number of unique requirements on Canadian boaters) Do you have an ax on board? How about a pea-less whistle? 2 fire buckets? 12 twin-star flares? Yikes ...
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Old 26-02-2019, 09:56   #7
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Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

INCORRECT REPLY. One of your responses claims that AIS relies upon cell networks. NOT TRUE!

In a country that requires AIS, and law enforcement/port authorities visually spot your vessel, and you are not transmitting an AIS signal, you may have a problem.

You will be in busy waters. Equip with a transmitting AIS.

FROM WIKI: AIS is intended, primarily, to allow ships to view marine traffic in their area and to be seen by that traffic. This requires a dedicated VHF AIS transceiver that allows local traffic to be viewed on an AIS enabled chartplotter or computer monitor while transmitting information about the ship itself to other AIS receivers. Port authorities or other shore-based facilities may be equipped with receivers only, so that they can view the local traffic without the need to transmit their own location. All AIS transceivers equipped traffic can be viewed this way very reliably but is limited to the VHF range, about 10–20 nautical miles.

In addition to VHF transmissions, most large ships send and recieve AIS signals up and down from a satellite enabling them worldwide AIS observations.
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Old 26-02-2019, 10:16   #8
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Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
How can they enforce this, for poverty-stricken third-worlders just passing through, say subsistence fishermen?


The point of requiring foreign pleasure vessels is not collision avoidance but to track foreigners in their waters.

I believe it was Thailand that was first in requiring visiting vessels to have AIS. I understand the goal was to keep track of whether foreigners were running under the table charter businesses in their waters. They wanted the funds from work permits service taxes those charters would generate.

Since the point of the requirement is not vessel safety but tax and work permit enforcement then there is no grounds that the country in question is forcing extra safety requirements on a foreign flagged vessel.

I expect this AIS requirement will expand to other popular tourist destinations.
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Old 26-02-2019, 10:31   #9
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Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

OK, I can see it if you're staying in their jurisdiction a while.

Just passing through their waters, then really taking the piss IMO.

And just to clarify, nothing to do with work permit revenues, starting a foreign-owned charter biz there would not even be possible, from a practical POV

their intention is preventing foreigners from competing with Thai-owned operations, which are paying off or "partnering with" the proper authorities connected to military- or police- adjacent mafia/protection rackets.
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Old 26-02-2019, 10:37   #10
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Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

Whatever, the point is the tourist money stays in country rather than moving on with some foreign vessel.
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Old 26-02-2019, 10:52   #11
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Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonleeau View Post
Hi all, we are preparing to sail to Indonesia from Australia next month. I have been using the phone app OnCourse last year to transmit my boats data and location, boat speed, direction of travel etc. and also to see what vessels may be approaching. It has been very useful on night sails and dependable. have not had it fail yet. This system relies on the Mobile network on the Australian coast. My question is - has anyone checked into Indonesia recently using just the app as your AIS source? I've read it is a requirement of the Indonesian govt. to have a working AIS transceiver and that they come on board to check it and take photos of the unit. Have anyone experienced this and are using the mobile app as your form of AIS?

Thanks in advance.
A phone app is not AIS.
Yes, you may be able to receive AIS ( somewhat reliably) when you have cell phone signal, but you cannot transmit and you cannot see ships when out of cell phone range.
I agree that it should not be mandatory, but I think everyone should have at least a REAL AIS receiver.

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Old 26-02-2019, 11:00   #12
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Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

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Originally Posted by Cat White House View Post
INCORRECT REPLY. One of your responses claims that AIS relies upon cell networks. NOT TRUE!
I believe you were misreading the reply. The OP stated he was using a cell phone app in place of AIS. The response pointed out that the app (not a real AIS transponder) depends on cell coverage and thus was not a suitable replacement.
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Old 26-02-2019, 11:16   #13
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Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
I believe you were misreading the reply. The OP stated he was using a cell phone app in place of AIS. The response pointed out that the app (not a real AIS transponder) depends on cell coverage and thus was not a suitable replacement.

The app could only be approximate in terms of position, anyway, as I suspect it works on the basis of individual cell signals triangulated from different cell towers to generate a "circle of likelihood" for a position. But I'm just guessing. I know if I turn on location services on my phone, I can be tracked to 10 metres or so on foot. Turn it off, and it's several blocks...but I can still be roughly located. AFAIK, the only way to truly stop a phone from announcing your exact or approximate location is to remove the battery until you need it to be on.
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Old 26-02-2019, 12:24   #14
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Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

[QUOTE=jasonleeau;2834419]Hi all, we are preparing to sail to Indonesia from Australia next month. I have been using the phone app OnCourse last year to transmit my boats data and location, boat speed, direction of travel etc. and also to see what vessels may be approaching. It has been very useful on night sails and dependable. have not had it fail yet. This system relies on the Mobile network on the Australian coast. My question is - has anyone checked into Indonesia recently using just the app as your AIS source? I've read it is a requirement of the Indonesian govt. to have a working AIS transceiver and that they come on board to check it and take photos of the unit. Have anyone experienced this and are using the mobile app as your form of AIS?

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE

It's my understanding that an AIS transciever will receive AIS signals only, identifying other boats in the area that are sending out an AIS signal. Those boats would be transmitting AIS signals with an AIS transponder which receives and transmits AIS signals.
If a government's intentions are to track vessels then they would require that vessels carry a working AIS transponder.
If their concern is just collision avoidance then, at the very least, they would require an AIS transceiver so the vessel can be aware of these AIS transmitting vessels. It won't help with collision avoidance of course from vessels not transmitting AIS.

The best would be to have radar and an AIS transponder/receiver. Currently, I think the transponders are very expensive as are radar units.
On my boat I have a Standard Horizon Radio with built in AIS receiver which was very reasonably priced. Perhaps that is all you'll need?
In Canada, commercial traffic vessels have to have AIS transponders, but there is no legal requirement for personal vessels to be equipped with AIS equipment.
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Old 26-02-2019, 14:13   #15
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Re: AIS CHECK BY AUTHORITIES IN INDONESIA

There is no requirement for foreign yachts to be AIS equipped in Indonesia. I was last there on a delivery 2 weeks ago, and travel through there doing Yacht Deliveries at least once per year. The only country in S.E. Asia requiring AIS on foreign flagged yachts, is Thailand, who do not require it for their own fishing vessels etc. It is doubtful if this is legally enforceable, but no one has challenged the Thai government in court yet! Singapore also requires AIS, but only if one is based there, not for vessels passing through.
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