Massschusetts to New Jersey

[cla6665]

Originally Posted by bensolomon

If you want any specifics about passage planning or where to stay from Massachusetts to the Chesapeake, let me know. My wife and I sail in a similar fashion to what you are planning. Just left those waters last week.

Thank you bensolomon, might contact you when we get closer to departure.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by cla6665

Hi all,
Purchased a 30 foot sailboat in Massachusetts and looking to sail it to New Jersey by the end of October. Thinking of heading to Long Island sound, down the East River and then to Raritan Bay in New Jersey. Other option would be open water along Long Island . Just wandering if someone has any experience with these particular routes, pros and cons and things to look out for.

I think you're getting fundamentally sound advice. Let's look at it a different way: I cannot for the life of me think of a good reason to South of Long Island between Massachusetts and Raritan Bay. If you were heading to Delaware Bay then sure, straight line, save a lot of time. For your plan, your risk increases and there really is no upside.



You will definitely want to be aware of tidal current. For the Race at the Eastern end of Long Island Sound you'll be happiest with a slack or fair current. On a small boat with limited power shoot for slack water plus/minus an hour. Eldridge is okay but I prefer an easier to use resource: https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/noaacurrents/Regions . This is the data Eldridge draws from and all the subordinate calculations are done for you.



Same resource for tidal current in the East River. I choose to run counter to conventional wisdom to run the East River at slack water. I go with a fair current. The risk is that you really can't turn around and go back on a boat the size of yours. You have to keep going. Don't slow down or you'll lose water flow over the rudder and won't be able to steer. The reason I prefer that is the big tugs and tows run at slack water. I have less company as the current picks up. YMMV. An engine casualty would be a big deal and that is something to think about on a new to you boat. Regardless City Island is a good place to stop before heading down the East River.



Keep your head on a swivel in NY Harbor. The ferries operate as if they are on rails. Rude.

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

True? We are 80 ft. Air draft. They were not in session during our passage. I was told by several sources we would not have been allowed to pass had they been in session. The river is not that wide there to stay away.

Security levels are a moving target. I've been through while the UN was in session and explained our air draft to the security boats (they weren't USCG, they were either DHS or NY Marine Police, I forget) and they asked us to stay on the far side as much as we can and had an escort boat with us. Remember harmless looking boats would be the choice of terrorists. Oh - you might want to take down silly things like pirate flags.

[hugosalt]

A little help understanding East river security and air draft of east channel of river.
Am no expert so please check out any and all info. Just a local who goes up/down river a bit and have a little understanding of what goes on at the UN having a business relationship with them for years.

There are 3 security zones on East river.
Zone 1 ... is from 59th street bridge to 35th street and is from Manhattan shore line to about half of west channel (think published at 175 yds.) this area is technically CLOSED
all the time. ...I try to stay mid channel but have been pushed closer to Manhattan side
and never have been bothered by CG or other.
Zone 2 ...is entire width of East river west channel (Manhattan to Roosevelt Is.)
Zone 3... is entire East river both West and East of Roosevelt Is.
River is open for passage except in emergency situations or when certain heads of state are at the UN, which is usually during the Annual General Debate of the General Assembly (almost all heads of state for entire world) at the end of Sept. for a week or so. And they could close river off and on during that time.
Not to be mixed up with just when the General Assembly is in session which is a lot and usually not a problem.
CG COTP (captain of the port) sends out advisory notices and i think one can subscribe to receive updates, I have never bothered.

Agree enforcement could be a moving target.
check advisories or call CG. Last # I used to check couple of years ago when i went down on 9/11 (was no problem) 718 354 4088 CG Staten Is.
All this info is available on advisories if concerned, I never check unless president or heads of state in town.

Low bridge in east channel of East river 40 ft...can be raised but bridge tender could be at another bridge or you have to give xx amount of time notice.
I am not interested in holding in place against a 4-5 knot current knowing there is no turning back.

Hope this helps.

[hugosalt]

cla6665...if you need to stage before heading down East river have free mooring available a mile east of Throgs Neck bridge or same in protected Manhasset bay just another mile east. And if time give a call and will come by and say hello.
Also info on quick in and outs along the way (such as Point Judith Pond and
North Cove just inside Ct. river entrance)...and we will all have must see stops to share if you have time for sightseeing.

[antoha]

hello cla6665,

didn't see anyone mentioning, so just a word of caution: end of October, new to you boat. be careful, pick your weather window, allow for much more time, and don't start the trip on a Friday.

we actually did smth similar: bought the boat in MA, set sail Friday morning on the last weekend of October, to Western LIS (a few years ago). everyone including the seller's broker were telling us not to go out that day, but we were too eager. i'm looking at the photos of the sky from that morning, and keep thinking "boy that was not smart at all".

we saw 15+ foot seas on the passage from Salem to Plymouth, with 50+ kt winds (I don't think our ST60 registers anything higher) - all day, the entire first day; amusingly, it turns out that prop out of the water sounds different than that same prop in the water... we motored all the way the first day (I was afraid to unfurl the jib on a boat I had never sailed before in such weather), had a few things break (fuel delivery system issue, some rusty electrical cables which had looked perfectly fine to everyone, including the surveyor), had to spend some time waiting out the weather not being able to enter the harbor (no engine, no electrical systems working, dark, wind in the wrong direction), etc.

when we got to Plymouth on Friday night - well, nobody was willing to help with the repairs over the weekend, troubleshooting happened Monday, parts arrived Tuesday, turned out to be the wrong part, etc. Instead of an overnight in Plymouth we spent 5 doing repairs. Westerbeke charges a lot for a fuel pump, but plus 5 nights of docking and hotels made it even more expensive (everything on the boat was soaked, too).

anyway. what we thought would be a two week long, leisurely autumn cruise, of visiting Martha's Vineyard, Nantucket, Cuttyhunk, Block and so on - ended up being 5 days of repairs in Plymouth (we took a bus to Boston for part of that, why suffer when you can't do anything about it), fighting the tide in Cape Cod Canal (the original dates got shifted by almost a week, so the whole schedule was messed up), wind against chop in Buzzards Bay (there was one day when we managed to make 4 miles of headway after 8 hours of trying), and just trying to catch up with the slipping schedule. We only actually sailed one leg on that trip: one in LIS, the weather let up a bit and it didn't feel like work.

it was a great trip, don't get me wrong! but now, I wouldn't go out in such weather, not on a new to me boat. and as they always say: have a plan B, plan C, plan D ready, just in case.

fair winds, and enjoy!

anton

[cla6665]

Originally Posted by antoha

hello cla6665,

didn't see anyone mentioning, so just a word of caution: end of October, new to you boat. be careful, pick your weather window, allow for much more time, and don't start the trip on a Friday.

we actually did smth similar: bought the boat in MA, set sail Friday morning on the last weekend of October, to Western LIS (a few years ago). everyone including the seller's broker were telling us not to go out that day, but we were too eager. i'm looking at the photos of the sky from that morning, and keep thinking "boy that was not smart at all".

we saw 15+ foot seas on the passage from Salem to Plymouth, with 50+ kt winds (I don't think our ST60 registers anything higher) - all day, the entire first day; amusingly, it turns out that prop out of the water sounds different than that same prop in the water... we motored all the way the first day (I was afraid to unfurl the jib on a boat I had never sailed before in such weather), had a few things break (fuel delivery system issue, some rusty electrical cables which had looked perfectly fine to everyone, including the surveyor), had to spend some time waiting out the weather not being able to enter the harbor (no engine, no electrical systems working, dark, wind in the wrong direction), etc.

when we got to Plymouth on Friday night - well, nobody was willing to help with the repairs over the weekend, troubleshooting happened Monday, parts arrived Tuesday, turned out to be the wrong part, etc. Instead of an overnight in Plymouth we spent 5 doing repairs. Westerbeke charges a lot for a fuel pump, but plus 5 nights of docking and hotels made it even more expensive (everything on the boat was soaked, too).

anyway. what we thought would be a two week long, leisurely autumn cruise, of visiting Martha's Vineyard, Nantucket, Cuttyhunk, Block and so on - ended up being 5 days of repairs in Plymouth (we took a bus to Boston for part of that, why suffer when you can't do anything about it), fighting the tide in Cape Cod Canal (the original dates got shifted by almost a week, so the whole schedule was messed up), wind against chop in Buzzards Bay (there was one day when we managed to make 4 miles of headway after 8 hours of trying), and just trying to catch up with the slipping schedule. We only actually sailed one leg on that trip: one in LIS, the weather let up a bit and it didn't feel like work.

it was a great trip, don't get me wrong! but now, I wouldn't go out in such weather, not on a new to me boat. and as they always say: have a plan B, plan C, plan D ready, just in case.

fair winds, and enjoy!

anton

Thanks for the info,
Ordered a back up fuel pump, fuel filter, carb rebuild kit, new water impeller,new alternator, rebuilt solenoid and starter just installed and also new batteries. I also picked up a jump starter and a back up electric bilge pump just in case.
I think I got all the parts I might need in case of trouble. I am sure I missed somenthing, comments and suggestions are welcome.

[bensolomon]

Don't forget to order replacement steering chain and cables from Edson. No matter how serviceable the steering is, Edson clearly states that it will fail without warning after a certain number of years. Also, I have one of those Edson portable bilge pumps that's capable of pumping one gallon per stroke.

it's not that you're going to hit something, but there is always an opportunity for something to get fouled on the prop and torque your prop shaft and allow the entrance of water into the bilge through the stuffing box.

Ben

[cla6665]

Originally Posted by bensolomon

Don't forget to order replacement steering chain and cables from Edson. No matter how serviceable the steering is, Edson clearly states that it will fail without warning after a certain number of years. Also, I have one of those Edson portable bilge pumps that's capable of pumping one gallon per stroke.

it's not that you're going to hit something, but there is always an opportunity for something to get fouled on the prop and torque your prop shaft and allow the entrance of water into the bilge through the stuffing box.

Ben

Sounds good, I also have an emergency tiller, it bypasses the wheel stearing.

[CarlF]

Go as soon as you get a good weather window. After October 1 the first winter gales can begin. We'll have one this week. Sometimes they come one after the other and you can't find a window.

Definitely go the inside route in a new boat. The East River is a wonderful experience. Be sure to have some "New York" music to play as you go under the Brooklyn Bridge

Here's my favorite East River tide chart. It works off the tide times at the Battery. The pictures at the bottom makes everything clear.

https://www.offshoreblue.com/cruisin...r-planning.php