The loss of Kokopelli

[Sailor 99]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

An issue with a fiberglass boat is that just about the whole thing is flammable, Sunbrella for instance is pure plastic and will burn like its soaked in gasoline, I would assume the same for the sails and hull of course.
My belief is that it can be put out if caught early enough and if you have the proper fire extinguishing agent. You need a smothering agent for the engine room and if not an automatic extinguisher, at least a way of filling the compartment without opening a hatch or door. Your extinguisher is only too big if you can’t carry it, sort of like an anchor, size matters
Then as was said in the blog, have a hose readily available connected to a lot of pressurized water, cause sometimes water is the best agent

I don't want to be mean but I don't think anyone should take the advice to fight a boat fire. Unless it is caught immediately you will mostly likely be over come with fumes very quick and you will die. Fiberglass boat fires are extremely fast.



In the case of a engine room/compartment fire, I can't imagine it has not caught the boat on fire





If you are there when it starts sure. Try.. but if the stuff around the fry pan catches fire and you can't kill it in 10 seconds its time to go.

[maqrol]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Just received the tragic news of the total loss of SV Kokopelli (Liz & Alan) to fire while underway. Fortunately they are both unharmed.

Liz & Alan are cruising friends of ours.

Full story: https://groups.io/g/CruisersNetworkO...74500632#10751

Sorry for this tragic lost! All my support

[barnakiel]

Damn such a loss. Lucky thing it all happened so close to the land.


I hope they will find another dream, maybe another boat too.


b.

[CHM]

I had a fire on my 43’ Beneteau the day after Christmas in 2018. I was able to save the boat but the damage has been extensive with repairs ongoing. We were underway with 5 aboard coming in from a great sailing day when I lost power suddenly followed by smoke coming from the engine compartment. I was able to empty one Kidde small dry chemical extinguisher which was like pissing in the wind. I had a about a minute before abandoning ship due to the toxic smoke. In my case, diesel fuel ignited on the exhaust header. Once the headliner caught, it was over. I have learned a great deal from my experience and was lucky to be near shore when it happened.

Some key lessons: those cheapo small fire extinguishers are garbage. I have a big Halotron one now above the engine as well as a dedicated fire port through which to use it. Also, just go ahead and replace old fuel lines and make sure the Racor is mounted away from the exhaust header. I will try to attach some photos.

[anthony110]

Reflecting on the good news. The two of them are safe. They can buy another boat. They can enjoy starting the whole process again. I hope they can laugh about it and pick up the pieces. Life is a journey not a camp.

Good luck to you two kids.

[BBill]

I was on a wooden power cruiser where the port engine battery bank shorted. The insulation melted away and the entire harness (about 2-3" dia) glowed like a stove burner for 10-15'. Visibility was nearly zero in the smoke other than seeing the glowing harness. Turning off breakers didn't help and neither did fire extinguishers. It continued to glow and smoke until the batts were out of juice. The entire port harness from batts to bridge was trashed. We were lucky it didn't catch the boat on fire but it didn't. I could get to the harness as long as i could hold my breath but no way to disconnect at the batts until they were depleted.

This was a high end semi custom cruiser with 32v system, twin 6-71s, generator and individual batt banks with auto demand when the elec stove was turned on. Lesson learned was always carry an axe or hatchet...this could have been stopped quickly had I been able to chop the harness. The cause was found to be an incorrectly wired generator that had just been rebuilt by a yard.

[WolfgangSeaLife]

I keep a pony scuba bottle with regulator and dive mask next to the companion way since it had saved me and my boat once before. At that time it was by accident that I had my dive gear laying there.
First I tried a wet towel over my face, forget that, it does not do anything. Hold your breath and get out or you die.

Also you might take a firefighting course. The moment you open a compartment to fight the fire, the fire gets oxygen and flames burst up.
I have an automatic halon extingisher in the engine room.

One fire was started behing wood paneling by an AC outlet that had been shorted by water over the years. Lots of smoke.

Another was by a short in the generator cable that had been cut by the metal pass to the generator. Bad installation. That was easily extinguished with an ABC fire extinguisher, but the cleaning was a mess.
I am sure there is more to it. but fire is the greatest danger.

[mikereed100]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Going back to dock boat fire...by the time someone noticed smoke emanating from that boat it was already too late....I happened to be standing nearby when it happened. At first it was just a whisp of black smoke seen coming out, but in seconds, it was pouring out of there.

Before the first fire extinguisher was even brought out, black smoke and flames were pouring out of every crack, seam, opening that there was and you'd be risking your life getting anywhere near it.

For this reason we have installed automatic fire extinguishers in both engine compartments and at the nav station where the batteries, solar controller and inverter live. The hope is that, even if the automatic extinguishers do not completely extinguish the fire, they will give us time to bring the 10lb manual extinguishers into play.

[SVHarmonie]

Originally Posted by Captn_Black

SV Delos has one I think. I am not disputing that it is rare on recreational boats, I just think it is a bad idea to not have one.

You think wrong.

An Amel Super Maramu (like Delos) has a permanently installed diesel generator in the engine room. Depending on the year built they were 6.5kW or 9kW. Not exactly one of those little Honda units. The engine room is fully isolated from the living cabins, and is its own watertight compartment with external ventilation. Certainly no gasoline generator involved.

Amel's philosophy is that anything that smells, or vibrates, or makes noise, or heat should be fully isolated from the living space. A good idea.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by CHM

I had a fire on my 43’ Beneteau the day after Christmas in 2018. I was able to save the boat but the damage has been extensive with repairs ongoing. We were underway with 5 aboard coming in from a great sailing day when I lost power suddenly followed by smoke coming from the engine compartment. I was able to empty one Kidde small dry chemical extinguisher which was like pissing in the wind. I had a about a minute before abandoning ship due to the toxic smoke. In my case, diesel fuel ignited on the exhaust header. Once the headliner caught, it was over. I have learned a great deal from my experience and was lucky to be near shore when it happened.

Some key lessons: those cheapo small fire extinguishers are garbage. I have a big Halotron one now above the engine as well as a dedicated fire port through which to use it. Also, just go ahead and replace old fuel lines and make sure the Racor is mounted away from the exhaust header. I will try to attach some photos.

So how did you save the boat? I assume the dry chemical didn’t and it sounds like then the headliner went, it would seem to be gone.
If you don’t mind, I’m curious how you got it under control?

[CHM]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

So how did you save the boat? I assume the dry chemical didn’t and it sounds like then the headliner went, it would seem to be gone.
If you don’t mind, I’m curious how you got it under control?

When I jumped overboard, I fully expected the boat to burn to the water line. The Coast Guard and fire department boarded and put out anything smoldering. They said I must’ve helped with whatever I could do. Mostly luck honestly. Then I had several knowledgeable boat folks look at the damage and tell me it was totaled anyway. The work continues.

[RossD]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Yeah, pressurized flammable liquid being sprayed near anything hot can start a fire very quickly. That's one of the reasons that I get a little nervous about the idea of fuel injected gas engines on boats. Yeah, carbs are a pain and fuel injection is nice, but it also involves very flammable liquid under significant pressure (while carbs have minimal pressurized components and they're low pressure). Leaks in a high pressure diesel injection system can be almost as bad if they're spraying a well atomized mist of fuel.

Yes indeed, I am with you for sure relative to the modern gasoline engines on boats. Being a fireman and living in a waterfront community, I've seen a number of fiberglass boats burn to the waterline. Generally there isn't time to save them once the fire takes hold.

[Montanan]

Saddened to hear of the loss of the vessel, gladdened to hear the couple are safe.

I am wondering if the marine industry has begun to use the fire retardent enhancement additives to the resins which compositions have become standard in architectural fiber glass and / or have implemented safety standards as to lower flame spread ratings, mitigation against self propagation of the flames / self extinguishing, and reduced smoke density. Seemingly vessels should be able to be constructed such that they don't burn down to the waterline. For example, built to Class A rating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig1GCQj7nTg

Perhaps using fire proof fabrics as barriers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlwM0a2Vm40

Unrelated to the marine sector but indicative of progression of enhanced fire resistant polymers.

Current International Building Codes (IBC) allows expanded uses of fire retardant FRP composites for building construction. Third party labeling and correct uses of FRP allow the material to be installed in areas that were prohibited by older versions of the code.

The current Section 2612 of the code falls within Chapter 26, entitled "Plastics". The code spells out specific tests that must be passed for multi-story use, radiant heat, flame spread and smoke development. Prior to 2009, FRP products were not recognized in the IBC, falling into the general category of Plastics which limited the use of FRP on building facades. Past limitations included the use of FRP only at heights below 40 feet. The current code addresses that fire retardant fiberglass can be used in all areas of construction when used in accordance to the code requirements.

[RaymondR]

I had a small electrical fire a few days ago whilst connecting a gas driven battery charger into the battery bank. I noticed the smoke emanating from the area in the saloon where the battery box and switch panel are installed and put out the fire using a dry powder extinguisher. A number of lessons have been learned.

Be a "fusin fool" even where temporary wiring is involved. The temporary line was not fused (a mistake I am not going to make again now that I have a fibreglass boat) and fuse both the positive and negative lines.

The smoke from the burning insulation is vicious stuff. Although the smoke was not very thick and I did not breath to much of it in, the little that I got had a very nasty bite.

The 2.5 kilo dry powder fire extinguisher I used worked OK for the main fire which was in the enclosure where the battery charger and solar regulators are installed but was depleted and I had to use water on a couple of small secondary fires in the battery box. I am now pondering whether a water misting system of some sort might be a good investment.

The upside of the incident is that it has obliged to take a much more serious attitude to fire prevention. My previous boat was steel and I had fallen into a fairly blaze attitude regarding fire prevention. However I am now firmly of the opinion that with fibreglass boats prevention is the only really effective cure.

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by WolfgangSeaLife

I have an automatic halon extingisher in the engine room.

Indeed, my first question when reading this story was whether the Kokopelli had automatic fire suppression equipment in its engine rooms. If this is a story about the loss of a boat due to inadequate fire suppression equipment, that is one thing. If this is a story about a boat which had automatic halon systems (or suitable alternative) in the engine rooms and they failed to control the fire, that is clearly another.