The loss of Kokopelli

[dannc]

Originally Posted by johnn33

Do many skippers have fireports fitted

https://www.vetus.com/en/engines-and...hing-ring.html

I don't think they are common in sailboat but they are not uncommon in trawlers. Trawlers also often have a fire suppression system in the engine room.

Without a fire suppression system, I don't think the odds are that good that one would have enough time to spray into the engine room on a fiberglass boat before the fire burned through the structure. Once the fire burns through on a fiberglass boat, well, it is all over.

I have read of a steel trawler that had a galley fire. The crew got out of the hull and was able to seal of the hull. This smoke from the fire smothered it self while they made it to shore. They were along the coast. When they go to port the fire department was made sure the fire was out.

The crew cleaned up the galley and went out shortly there after. That is a great out come that is less likely on aluminum and even less likely on fiberglass boats. Not sure the result would have been the same if the engine room had caught fire. That is whole different situation.

Glad the crew of Kokopelli got off the boat safely.

Later,
Dan

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Captn_Black

SV Delos has one I think. I am not disputing that it is rare on recreational boats, I just think it is a bad idea to not have one.

So your saying that gasoline generators should be stored below?

[a64pilot]

Ports are good, cheap and easy to install, however you really need a fire extinguisher with a small ended hose that will fit through the port to be useful.
This Halotron extinguisher has such a hose. The Halon and dry chemical mounted under it don’t.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

So your saying that gasoline generators should be stored below?

I thought we were talking non-portable ones?
And not really, my opinion overall is that I would prefer to not have one at all, and if I did then I would either have it on deck for use or in a specially design compartment.

[Captn_Black]

I would only really consider a genny for welding, but that would be too big to be practical for us. I can survive ok with cordless tools.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Captn_Black

Sorry for your loss. What do you reckon it was? The gas generator maybe?

Your post #3.
I would assume that they had a built in generator too, and that it was a Diesel. Not uncommon at all really, I have one. Some will run the generator when underway, most don’t.
Seeing as how only 5% or fires are fuel related, it most likely wasn’t fuel, close to 50% of fires are from electrical, so odds are it was electrical, but we will never know as the boat is on the bottom.
I wonder how many private boat fires are actually investigated and not just an informed opinion put down as cause. Boats burn down to almost nothing and it would be real hard to determine cause I would think, and with no Criminal case and hopefully no one dead, why bother?

[donradcliffe]

Good luck with those cordless tools.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ea-229844.html

It would be nice to hear from Liz and Alan as to how they suspect the fire started.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Good luck with those cordless tools.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ea-229844.html

It would be nice to hear from Liz and Alan as to how they suspect the fire started.

Well, I have been doing everything by hand until now, aside from cordless drills. AvE on youtube has some good recommendations for cordless grinders, I would like one, although even a wire brush attachment for the drill makes the final scrubbing a bit easier. I've done a lot of metal working with hand tools so far, not impossible, but damn slow. I would always buy tools with at least two batteries, but I am not in a huge hurry, a few hours work a day on a specific job will get it done eventually.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Captn_Black

I would only really consider a genny for welding, but that would be too big to be practical for us. I can survive ok with cordless tools.

I started out that way too, even have a cordless vacuum cleaner, but soon realized that cordless tools require more power than corded ones, because you have to charge their batteries and almost always that requires 120 VAC, and there are losses in battery charging.
Better I think to have an inverter and power corded tools directly, they are usually more powerful, lighter and much cheaper, easier to store and don’t have batteries that can catch fire, but what really drove me that way was the poor quality and expense of 12V kitchen appliances, not that we have many, a toaster and a blender, but try to find them in 12V.

A generator comes into play for us to ensure batteries are full, and to make water as our watermaker is AC, so we don’t need a lot of generator, nor do we need it often. We may use it to run a heater or airconditioner two, maybe three times a year, but that is very unusual for us.

There are many things you can do without and a generator is one of them, but as simple and inexpensive as they are, we choose not to, without supplemental power you have to change your lifestyle to vary with available power, if you have another source, you don’t have to.
Of course others may choose differently.

[rslifkin]

For the cordless tools thing, I love the ones I've got, but they live at home, not on the boat. They only come to the boat for projects. All of the permanent boat tools are either hand tools or corded power tools. 2 reasons for staying corded on the boat: less batteries to worry about from a safety perspective, and the boat power tools don't get used all that often, so a cordless one is likely to need charging before I can use it. With a corded one, I can just plug it in (and fire up the generator if needed) and away we go.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

A64pilot, you speak with wisdom. Fiberglass burns like greased paper. An electrical short is enough to get it going, because fiberglass does not conduct heat away from the source. You locally pass the flash point of fiberglass very quickly. You do not need a hydrocardon accelerant like gasoline - fiberglass will do the job.



CO2 piped to the engine compartment is my defence of choice. It's cheap, easy to pipe with some copper tubing, and can flood the space without your opening the compartment and letting air in.

On paragraph 1- EXACTLY that is why fire ports are an option that may work

On paragraph 2- curious as to the volume of CO2 needed to get Oxygen levels down to where it will not support combustion. Could almost be a DIY project.

Of course there is still the issue of flare-up when the compartment is opened.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I started out that way too, even have a cordless vacuum cleaner, but soon realized that cordless tools require more power than corded ones, because you have to charge their batteries and almost always that requires 120 VAC, and there are losses in battery charging.
Better I think to have an inverter and power corded tools directly, they are usually more powerful, lighter and much cheaper, easier to store and don’t have batteries that can catch fire, but what really drove me that way was the poor quality and expense of 12V kitchen appliances, not that we have many, a toaster and a blender, but try to find them in 12V.

A generator comes into play for us to ensure batteries are full, and to make water as our watermaker is AC, so we don’t need a lot of generator, nor do we need it often. We may use it to run a heater or airconditioner two, maybe three times a year, but that is very unusual for us.

There are many things you can do without and a generator is one of them, but as simple and inexpensive as they are, we choose not to, without supplemental power you have to change your lifestyle to vary with available power, if you have another source, you don’t have to.
Of course others may choose differently.

Yea, while I am not opposed to a bit of elbow grease, I do want to move that way with some things - a dremmel perhaps. We currently only have 300w of panels though, but space for 600w. Once we get there I can start thinking about that. At the moment the system struggles with a 180w blender for baby food. I survived a heat wave in Bahamas with just interior fans, I don't think I will ever need AC, if you're adapted to the heat it is bearable with good circulation.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Snore

On paragraph 1- EXACTLY that is why fire ports are an option that may work

On paragraph 2- curious as to the volume of CO2 needed to get Oxygen levels down to where it will not support combustion. Could almost be a DIY project.

Of course there is still the issue of flare-up when the compartment is opened.

I feel I should briefly state the risk of suffocation with using a CO2 extinguisher inside a boat. Though of course we are talking an engine compartment fire suppression system here.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Captn_Black

I feel I should briefly state the risk of suffocation with using a CO2 extinguisher inside a boat. Though of course we are talking an engine compartment fire suppression system here.

Agreed. Because of that issue, there are better agents to use than CO2 for flooding an engine space. Only downside is they cost more.

[WolfgangSeaLife]

Was this a gas powered generator indeed?
What was running when this happened?
Did they have an automatic halon extinguisher?