Owners die in sailing accident

[Networker]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

one would think such boat should have ability to reef without turning into wind ?

That’s exactly what John Kretchmer said in his last captains hour. You have to learn to reef the main without turning into the wind, as it’s just not safe or realistic to do when offshore in heavy seas. This is what caused everything to spiral downward.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by merrimac

https://www.bwsailing.com/anatomy-of-a-tragedy-at-sea/

https://www.morganscloud.com/2022/08...ragedy-at-sea/

I was told by a senior executive of a major supplier of in boom roller furling systems that he would not trust in boom furling offshore. Tough to beat slab reefing.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Networker

That’s exactly what John Kretchmer said in his last captains hour. You have to learn to reef the main without turning into the wind, as it’s just not safe or realistic to do when offshore in heavy seas. This is what caused everything to spiral downward.

No way to reef most mains without taking thd pressure of the sail slides. That means head to wind

If you have to reef in heavy airs it’s too late

[Cwens]

Mainsheet block ripping clear of the traveller: no control over the boom. plus a failed rigid vang allowing the boom to sag. That's a level of chaos and mayhem that most of us can scarcely imagine. I read an eyewitness account of a similar incident that described 1,000 lbs of boom+partially furled main swinging wildly back and forth, sweeping the cockpit at knee height. The phrase "like a psychotic windshield wiper" stuck in my memory.

[SV Tom Crean]

Originally Posted by ChrisOwens

Mainsheet block ripping clear of the traveller: no control over the boom. plus a failed rigid vang allowing the boom to sag. That's a level of chaos and mayhem that most of us can scarcely imagine. I read an eyewitness account of a similar incident that described 1,000 lbs of boom+partially furled main swinging wildly back and forth, sweeping the cockpit at knee height. The phrase "like a psychotic windshield wiper" stuck in my memory.

Here is a sister ship - you can see the size of the boom.

[carstenb]

We just experienced a crash gybe. Not a pleasant experience. Seas were running 12-14 feet and winds 30+.

Fortunately, the main was in the 3rd reef and the boom and sail plastered against the spreaders. We managed to get the boom under control by rigging a line with a carabiner in the center.
I crawled out on deck (this was in the middle of the night of course) and managed to get the carabiner hooked into the mainsheet block.

We then ran the lines, one on each side through the genua car blocks back to the winches and could now center the boom. Once centered, we could haul the main the rest of the way down by hand, fix the boom so it wouldn't swing out.

Just so you all can understand, crawling around on deck in the middle of the night hoping that the boom doesn't come back the other way is a terrifying experience.

I can easily understand if a flying boom injured those two enough to kill them

here's a link to the thread on our crash gybe

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...be-268555.html

[Joli]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

No way to reef most mains without taking thd pressure of the sail slides. That means head to wind

If you have to reef in heavy airs it’s too late

That's nonsense. With in line spreaders and properly rigged reef lines it's possible to lower a main in any condition.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by SV Tom Crean

Here is a sister ship - you can see the size of the boom.Attachment 264790

The boom and sail weighed close to 2,000 pounds. Snatch loads would be incredible.

[Calif.Ted]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

one would think such boat should have ability to reef without turning into wind ?

I know there are people who say they can reef a main while running downwind in a blow, but I have doubts.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

No way to reef most mains without taking thd pressure of the sail slides. That means head to wind

If you have to reef in heavy airs it’s too late

You are only partially correct here, Yes you have to get the pressure off the slides to be able to pull the main down in order to reef the main, but this most of the time does not require going head to wind. it requires turning up enough to luff the main and take pressure off the sail (if you are on a down wind run its not great)

[Knotical]

Originally Posted by Calif.Ted

I know there are people who say they can reef a main while running downwind in a blow, but I have doubts.

We have slab reefing, full battens, and STRONG track, except for dead downwind I can lower the main by heading up a little and luffing it; the sail drops like a bomb in the lazy jacks, have reefed it multiple times that way as the conditions that require reefing are also not conducive to head up into the wind.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

A boom on the head would explain one being killed but the second is hard to picture unless the traveller also broke.
The boom is definitely down but could be the coast guard pinned it down to secure the traveller. I think if that boom were swinging free in a storm low there would be no dodger

According to the first accounts received by the remaining crew members, neither person was hit by the boom.

The wife was struck by the whipping mainsheet as the boom flailed wildly and she was thrown to the deck, probably violently.

Her husband hurried to the cockpit and he too was hit by the main sheet and suffered severe injuries including a compound fracture of the leg.

Both injuries were the result of the main sheet remaining slack when the boat was turned into the wind.

A 67' boat with a huge main, flogging as it must have been, and high tech composite mainsheet, they would hit you like iron bars, and they did.

The boom is down onto the dodger as a result of a crew member, after they were injured and immobile, lowering the halyard to get some control over the main. He was not rolling up at the time.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Joli

That's nonsense. With in line spreaders and properly rigged reef lines it's possible to lower a main in any condition.

That boat does not have inline spreaders.

And while my boat does have inline spreaders I don't consider it possible to pull down the main in 30+ knots of wind (or even 20) while it is plastered against the shrouds and spreaders. It's been done. It is slow and difficult.

The reefing lines and cunningham can start it, but not move it very far or very fast. Winching the main sheet in can relieve that pressure but you risk a round up, and anyhow, as soon as you drop the halyard it is back against the rig again.

For us, we get prepared, then turn up wind sharply and drop the main very quickly, (it falls down) then turn back down wind.

Our boat is only 43'

[Jolly Roger]

A boat of that length as a sloop is lunacy, unless you've got half a dozen guerrillas as crew. I once skippered a 77-foot ketch, and that main and boom was plenty big enough to be dangerous. That's why they are split up.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

A boat of that length as a sloop is lunacy, unless you've got half a dozen guerrillas as crew. I once skippered a 77-foot ketch, and that main and boom was plenty big enough to be dangerous. That's why they are split up.

I tend to agree. While that boat is light for its size it still weighs 70,000lbs. The boom is over 25 feet long. The sail area is huge, over 1000sq ft in the main. In light air the boat would be a dream, silent and swift. In heavy air it becomes dangerous for a short handed crew.

I've done quite a bit of sailing on a very similar 65' boat (including Hobart) on Icon. And some on a Deerfoot, and some on a Frers 63' Swiftsure. If you're very good, and things go well, (they usually do) you get through it. You are lucky. But without some people to deal with problems the risk is great. Frankly, I don't know how the Joli folks do it, or my friends on the Deerfoot 62 Moonshadow. All sloops, all massive, all potentially dangerous.