Orcas appear to have sunk a sailboat- what now?

[timsnape]

Orca behaviour follows well defined and distinctive patterns, of hunting, resting, playing, travelling. There is no "blood lust revenge killer phase". The stories of long line fisherman unsuccessfully trying to deter Orcas from taking fish off their lines would have occurred when the Orcas were in a hunting phase, whereas the phase they'd be in when supposedly attacking boats is most likely to be a play phase.

I am not aware of any studies or research on the affect of acoustic deterrents in the different behavioural phases, but I do think it might be something worth doing a little scientific research into. To try and identify what is causing this behaviour and methods to deter it.

It does seem like a fascinating problem, I am sure there must be many marine biologists who would love to do a study on this and try and understand why these amazing and beautiful creatures are behaving like this and hopefully identify possible solutions.

[skenn_ie]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

You are lucky to have a choice about where you can live...

The chances are, that is you did anything that they considered aggressive or hazardous to THEIR family, they would sink your boat and kill you.
Your best chance of survival is to be as non=threatening as possible, ALMOST regardless of what they are doing.

[rnanaples]

I really do not know ow to even try to start thinking about that statement. So be nice and the Orca will let you live? This is so utterly insane I must rest for a while.

[Carl-T705]

What??? The world is man's playground . The animals have to deal with that in a friendly way or people will have McDonald's start serving whale burgers and cooking french fries in whale oil. Guess any sailboat under 50 ft is just whalebait. Just when I thought it was safe to put my 28 ft sailboat back in the water ... Now I have to worry about the killer whales .... Again ....

[skenn_ie]

Originally Posted by rnanaples

I really do not know ow to even try to start thinking about that statement. So be nice and the Orca will let you live? This is so utterly insane I must rest for a while.

In their kingdom, they have almost all the cards, plus you are unlikely to be dealing with just one. Even one, could probably punch a hole in the boat that would sink it in minutes, then sink your dingy/liferaft even quicker.
If you get stung by a bee, do you attack the hive with a stick ? You will just anger them, and you won't outrun them.

[SailingInfidels]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I think we need to get along and share the sea with sea life, but when one species threatens another, time to call a halt. Those of us who can call ourselves reasoning beings have the responsibility to monitor and do that.

I am afraid I don't understand how you can finish an otherwise reasonable comment with this.


Time to call a halt? Whenever one species threatens another? You lost me right there.

And no, I am sorry but, whether it's the norm or not, humans do not have the responsibility (or the right) to be the global police for the natural web of life. We seem to think we need to "manage" wildlife, resources, the environment. I disagree. What we need to do is manage our own activity with regard to how that activity affects wildlife, resources, and the environment.

[oksnoey]

The CMS (Convention on Migratory Species) is a UN treaty governing the protection of migrating animals that, as part of their life history, migrate across international borders. This convention and The IWC (International Whaling Commission) are the framework for enabling legislation for the nations that have signed the treaty. An example is the Marine Mammals Protection Act in the US. Spain is a signatory of these treaties.

The story of orcas is a sad one. Prior to the decimation of great whale populations over the past couple of centuries orca had a natural predator prey relationship with whales. This changed when wild whale populations crashed due to predation by humans.

Since then orca populations have declined. To survive they’ve shifted their diet to fish and seals. These are very intelligent and adaptable creatures. They have shown some significant changes to their behaviors first seen in the 1990s. Due to the crashes in salmon populations in the North Pacific some transient pods have shifted to killing sea otters. Which are low energy nutrition for them. But, when you’re starving you do what you need to.

It wouldn’t be surprising at all if some younger, mostly male, orcas would try something new and attack smaller boats. Especially without a matriarch to keep them in line. The key is to give them wide clearance.


It’s key to remember that it’s illegal in most territorial waters to harrrass them. Also, considering that this is a humanity caused situation, I also would see it as unethical to take hostile actions toward them.


Owen Snoey MSc ES & P, Ocean Science

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Carl-T705

What??? The world is man's playground . The animals have to deal with that in a friendly way or people will have McDonald's start serving whale burgers and cooking french fries in whale oil. Guess any sailboat under 50 ft is just whalebait. Just when I thought it was safe to put my 28 ft sailboat back in the water ... Now I have to worry about the killer whales .... Again ....

Your just "spouting off"
No Whale is going to sink your boat.
No Mc Donald's is going to serve whale burgers.
Worry, worry.
You don't live anywhere near Portugal.
Silly scared humans never learn.
It's why WE are now an Endangered species.
Boatyarddog

[CyKlop]

Some things to think about...

You're 100 miles off shore and your boat is attacked by Sea Creatures. Law says you are not to harass the animals, etc. They are, however, endangering you. You're going to sit and do nothing? Especially now that we have a confirmed report of not just damage, but an actual sinking of a boat?

I wholeheartedly agree with non harassing then, not trying to hurt them, etc., right up to the point where it's my (or my crew's) neck on the line. At that point I'm going to whatever it is that is most likely to tell them, "Go 'way and hunt some nice seals and fishes. I'm a bad choice to hunt/play with." The moment they lose interest in harming my boat, I go back to, "Oh my, what beautiful animals. Aren't we lucky to see them?" mode.

Yes, I know the chances of them sinking my boat are, virtually, zero. The chances of me doing much, if any damage to them unless they are trying to do something to my boat, is pretty much zero too.

I'm not proposing to go through their waters with some noise or whale call blaring from underwater speakers, but if they start messing with my boat and that deters them, then yes I'll drop a speaker in and turn it on.

On the other hand, I'm on the west coast of Canada, so this is not a problem that is likely to affect me unless the transient or resident pods of Orcas here start doing the same thing as the ones off Spain/Portugal.

[pterrien]

Originally Posted by dr.j.levy

Opening up a discussion about new level of serious risk as reported in this link. The official line is that this species of Orcas are protected and if an interaction occurs, do nothing. There have been many interactions with serious damage, this is the first report of sinking.

https://www.portugalresident.com/fiv...f-sines-coast/

The last thing you want to do is follow these silly instructions which make you a sitting duck. If conditions permit it, do a FULL astern and they should stop attacking. Worked for me . Don’t try to outrun them going forward, they are much faster then you. They will typically attack the rudder(s) and are young species .

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by CyKlop

Some things to think about...

You're 100 miles off shore and your boat is attacked by Sea Creatures. Law says you are not to harass the animals, etc. They are, however, endangering you. You're going to sit and do nothing? Especially now that we have a confirmed report of not just damage, but an actual sinking of a boat?

I wholeheartedly agree with non harassing then, not trying to hurt them, etc., right up to the point where it's my (or my crew's) neck on the line. At that point I'm going to whatever it is that is most likely to tell them, "Go 'way and hunt some nice seals and fishes. I'm a bad choice to hunt/play with." The moment they lose interest in harming my boat, I go back to, "Oh my, what beautiful animals. Aren't we lucky to see them?" mode.

Yes, I know the chances of them sinking my boat are, virtually, zero. The chances of me doing much, if any damage to them unless they are trying to do something to my boat, is pretty much zero too.

I'm not proposing to go through their waters with some noise or whale call blaring from underwater speakers, but if they start messing with my boat and that deters them, then yes I'll drop a speaker in and turn it on.

On the other hand, I'm on the west coast of Canada, so this is not a problem that is likely to affect me unless the transient or resident pods of Orcas here start doing the same thing as the ones off Spain/Portugal.

It's competitive behavior, nothing more.
Try not to overthink it.
BYD

[Popcorn]

Wow, Spain exempts their killing sonar arrays used on military ships, but the ordinary citizen gets the wrap?
Their military uses sonar pods (very high energy pods) to detect enemy subs and destroyers use sonar pods or equipment to ping or to detect underwater (enemy) objects and air craft drop sonar buoy's of the same sort but possibly some of them are not active/passive combo's or both.

Could the military be messing with the sanity of these normally non hostile creatures?
Consider what they are doing, no knowledge out there to examine this possible affect?
Military is exempt it seems, no mention of them in their law.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by SailingInfidels

I am afraid I don't understand how you can finish an otherwise reasonable comment with this.


Time to call a halt? Whenever one species threatens another? You lost me right there.

And no, I am sorry but, whether it's the norm or not, humans do not have the responsibility (or the right) to be the global police for the natural web of life. We seem to think we need to "manage" wildlife, resources, the environment. I disagree. What we need to do is manage our own activity with regard to how that activity affects wildlife, resources, and the environment.

Yachts stand a much better chance of hitting a partially submerged container than getting damage from A Whale Bite
No one hear is complaining about lost Containers sinking their boats.

Quote:
Time to call a halt? Whenever one species threatens another? You lost me right there.

That's called thin skinned.
More humans die from bee stings than will ever be harmed by Orca.
There are zero cases, worldwide!

Oh, yeah Seaworld
Not in the Ocean, though.
1 accident there.
Boatyarddog

[skenn_ie]

Originally Posted by SailingInfidels

I am afraid I don't understand how you can finish an otherwise reasonable comment with this.


Time to call a halt? Whenever one species threatens another? You lost me right there.

And no, I am sorry but, whether it's the norm or not, humans do not have the responsibility (or the right) to be the global police for the natural web of life. We seem to think we need to "manage" wildlife, resources, the environment. I disagree. What we need to do is manage our own activity with regard to how that activity affects wildlife, resources, and the environment.

I agree 100%

[limte]

Several years ago in a remote area of Newfoundland, two orcas changed direction in order to approach our sailboat. One of them swam directly toward us, turned upside down, and swam underneath our boat, appearing again on the opposite side. I have no idea if there was any aggression expressed on the part of the orcas, or whether it was curiosity, or perhaps, and more likely, some "reason" that we cannot be privy to as humans. I dought whether anyone really knows why orcas act as they do, but as humans we seem to need to always find a tidy answer.