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Old 03-07-2020, 11:04   #1
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NOT Just the Garbage Patch

If anybody cares, do look at the headlines. And think.


https://www.independent.co.uk/enviro...-a8965326.html


https://www.theguardian.com/environm...england-rivers


https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-data-suggests


How can we ask Bolsonaro to stop deforestation of the Amazon rain forest, if we are doing just the same in the EU.


How can we talk the Pacific Garbage Patch and get oh so fuitless-ly 'angry' when we add to the problem just as much as India and China do?


I wish you a fine weekend otherwise. Go out enjoy the sunset while it lasts.


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Old 03-07-2020, 11:48   #2
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch

barnakiel, it is important to separate two different things from my point of view:
On one hand people are demanding change where it is urgently needed. This can be the Amazon or the river at our doorstep. The reasoning should be discussed in order to make progress.
On the other hand, I think it is important to independently(!) discuss the behaviour of the very same people.
If you mix the two topics instead of discussing the specific arguments, you can not expect progress.
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Old 03-07-2020, 12:14   #3
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch

There are different views. They do not seem to collide as much as they seem to overlap.



Mine is that there is no progress possible. Things went too far.


We are being asked to behave in a civil manner and 'ACT NOW'. (WTF ??? - just pls do not use this quote for navigation).



Meanwhile the joint forces of the business and the governments keep on doing exactly the opposite : cutting down the forests, dumping sewage into rivers, etc.


I just hope people will read and think about it. I do not expect nor ask for any action.


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Old 03-07-2020, 16:47   #4
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch

"How can we..."

A fine example of the fallacious argument of "whataboutism". (aka "tu quoque" or "fallacy of hypocrisy")

If nothing is being done about one problem, that doesn't mean that nothing should be done about another problem.

Keep on pushing for action on EU pollution. Don't use the lack of action for an excuse to not push for action in other areas.
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Old 04-07-2020, 07:45   #5
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch

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"How can we..."

A fine example of the fallacious argument of "whataboutism". (aka "tu quoque" or "fallacy of hypocrisy")

If nothing is being done about one problem, that doesn't mean that nothing should be done about another problem.

Keep on pushing for action on EU pollution. Don't use the lack of action for an excuse to not push for action in other areas.

I tried.


I went to the marina office asking if the dazillion of 'marinheros' that cruise this marina on a pretty regular basis (burning heaps of fossil fuel) could perhaps sometimes pick up some of the garbage they so proudly disregard.


All I achieved was that I found it very very difficult to extend our stay here. Apparently the marina shrunk and now they had this one berth fewer.


Nothing is getting done by the well fed administration, and when a citizen attempts any form of protest, we get at best disregarded, and much more often threatened.


I have friends who attempted to stop commercial cutting down of trees in a native forest reserve. They got brutalized by the administration working on orders of the Minister of the Environment.


We are not being listened to. And when we speak up or take action, we are faced with the government aligning with the business.


I wish it were otherwise, but somehow reality is just as it is: less forest, more sewage, and activists treated as criminals.


So what I am saying is our individual action IS NOT ENOUGH. And top down action by the governments is NOT GETTING DONE.


It is a sad view.


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Old 04-07-2020, 07:52   #6
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch

It would be so simple to ban single use plastic, if the petro companies didn't own the politicians.
It's use is just ridiculous. I don't need a "hard to open sealed plastic housing" around every damn widget I buy. In fact I don't want one even if there weren't eco issues!
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Old 04-07-2020, 08:10   #7
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch

Yep. We have them here too. I call these blisters. Few companies use paper ones that I can place in the paper container. But the big shots (Panasonic, etc.) will stick with hard plastic ones. Pretty nasty choice, imho.


Imagine this - one regulation by the state and there would be no more hard plastic blisters next year. Why they refuse to make this regulation and disregard our asking is pretty clear.



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Old 04-07-2020, 08:18   #8
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Yep. We have them here too. I call these blisters. Few companies use paper ones that I can place in the paper container. But the big shots (Panasonic, etc.) will stick with hard plastic ones. Pretty nasty choice, imho.


Imagine this - one regulation by the state and there would be no more hard plastic blisters next year. Why they refuse to make this regulation and disregard our asking is pretty clear.
b.
A few places have banned single use plastics but not nearly enough.
I loved the old hardware stores, there were bins with unpackaged items, switches, valves etc etc. WTH was wrong with that?
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Old 04-07-2020, 08:46   #9
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch

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A few places have banned single use plastics but not nearly enough.
I loved the old hardware stores, there were bins with unpackaged items, switches, valves etc etc. WTH was wrong with that?
Having spent far more time in retail than I care to remember, I can tell you this: we live in a society who, for the most part, doesn't want to purchase something that isn't *new*. I have literally dealt with those who require an item be opened to verify fit/function/compatibility or whatever, then refuse to purchase that item ^^insisting on the same item in a sealed package^^
Literally had a salesman do this to me yesterday for my water pump">raw water pump impeller. *HE* opened the package to verify I don't even remember what, then resealed it, put it back, and got me another one (identical) and stated here, this one hasn't been opened. I honestly didn't have words...
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Old 04-07-2020, 08:49   #10
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch

Retailers like oversized, bulletproof plastic packaging to deter shoplifting.
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Old 04-07-2020, 08:55   #11
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch

We all know how to fix our earthly problems, but we as a species won’t do it because it will require teamwork, learning and sacrifices in our daily lives. Harsh? yes, but true none the less.

Have fun storming the castle....

Fair winds,
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Old 04-07-2020, 09:08   #12
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch

In my quest to eliminate plastic I found a company that sells shampoo and conditioning "bars". No plastic, no packaging other than the paper envelope in which it's shipped. Better than that, it's a very good product. Look up theearthlingco.com.

I guess my point is that the companies that are looking at the problem don't have the advertising budget of the mega corporations and are therefore harder to find. I have to sit at the computer and search to find a product and hope its a good product when it arrives (not all are). When I do find a good one, I tell all my like minded friends on a FB page for sailors who care about the environment.

These are all tiny steps, I know. Am I having an impact? Not a clue. But I believe that the trash starts with the consumer. If I don't buy the product one less container is in the trash cycle. That product still exists for someone else to buy but I stopped it at my doorstep.

Go ahead and chuckle at the small steps. It's what I can do.
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Old 04-07-2020, 09:30   #13
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch

I went to the marina office asking if the dazillion of 'marinheros' that cruise this marina on a pretty regular basis (burning heaps of fossil fuel) could perhaps sometimes pick up some of the garbage they so proudly disregard."
I used to think sailors were better at this... garbage, nature, environment etc etc... but have been regularly disabused of this naive notion. And it saddens me.
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Old 04-07-2020, 09:37   #14
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch

Quote:
Originally Posted by redhead View Post
In my quest to eliminate plastic I found a company that sells shampoo and conditioning "bars". No plastic, no packaging other than the paper envelope in which it's shipped. Better than that, it's a very good product. Look up theearthlingco.com.

I guess my point is that the companies that are looking at the problem don't have the advertising budget of the mega corporations and are therefore harder to find. I have to sit at the computer and search to find a product and hope its a good product when it arrives (not all are). When I do find a good one, I tell all my like minded friends on a FB page for sailors who care about the environment.

These are all tiny steps, I know. Am I having an impact? Not a clue. But I believe that the trash starts with the consumer. If I don't buy the product one less container is in the trash cycle. That product still exists for someone else to buy but I stopped it at my doorstep.

Go ahead and chuckle at the small steps. It's what I can do.
Lots of small steps add up to a big step.

Remember the environmental mantra. "Think globally, act locally."

Everyone should take personal responsibility for their own little part of the world, like buying shampoo without the plastic bottle. I wash and reuse plastic bags. Of course take your own bags to the store.

At the same time push for global change. I think and hope it helps environmental change that I donate to Greenpeace and Sierra Club.

And keep sending those cards and letters to the politicians. Sooner or later some of them will get the message.

AND!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't forget to vote.
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Old 04-07-2020, 10:03   #15
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch

Quote:
Originally Posted by redhead View Post
In my quest to eliminate plastic I found a company that sells shampoo and conditioning "bars". No plastic, no packaging other than the paper envelope in which it's shipped. Better than that, it's a very good product. Look up theearthlingco.com.

I guess my point is that the companies that are looking at the problem don't have the advertising budget of the mega corporations and are therefore harder to find. I have to sit at the computer and search to find a product and hope its a good product when it arrives (not all are). When I do find a good one, I tell all my like minded friends on a FB page for sailors who care about the environment.

These are all tiny steps, I know. Am I having an impact? Not a clue. But I believe that the trash starts with the consumer. If I don't buy the product one less container is in the trash cycle. That product still exists for someone else to buy but I stopped it at my doorstep.

Go ahead and chuckle at the small steps. It's what I can do.
Thanks for the tip, and link, it all starts with us not purposefully purchasing landfill, every bit helps, you are doing the right thing! If we all pitch in it can have a larger impact.

Fair winds,
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