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03-07-2020, 11:48
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 323
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch
barnakiel, it is important to separate two different things from my point of view:
On one hand people are demanding change where it is urgently needed. This can be the Amazon or the river at our doorstep. The reasoning should be discussed in order to make progress.
On the other hand, I think it is important to independently(!) discuss the behaviour of the very same people.
If you mix the two topics instead of discussing the specific arguments, you can not expect progress.
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03-07-2020, 12:14
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 20,420
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch
There are different views. They do not seem to collide as much as they seem to overlap.
Mine is that there is no progress possible. Things went too far.
We are being asked to behave in a civil manner and 'ACT NOW'. (WTF ??? - just pls do not use this quote for navigation).
Meanwhile the joint forces of the business and the governments keep on doing exactly the opposite : cutting down the forests, dumping sewage into rivers, etc.
I just hope people will read and think about it. I do not expect nor ask for any action.
barnakiel
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03-07-2020, 16:47
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#4
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43 and OPBs
Posts: 12,888
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch
"How can we..."
A fine example of the fallacious argument of "whataboutism". (aka "tu quoque" or "fallacy of hypocrisy")
If nothing is being done about one problem, that doesn't mean that nothing should be done about another problem.
Keep on pushing for action on EU pollution. Don't use the lack of action for an excuse to not push for action in other areas.
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04-07-2020, 07:45
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 20,420
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM
"How can we..."
A fine example of the fallacious argument of "whataboutism". (aka "tu quoque" or "fallacy of hypocrisy")
If nothing is being done about one problem, that doesn't mean that nothing should be done about another problem.
Keep on pushing for action on EU pollution. Don't use the lack of action for an excuse to not push for action in other areas.
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I tried.
I went to the marina office asking if the dazillion of 'marinheros' that cruise this marina on a pretty regular basis (burning heaps of fossil fuel) could perhaps sometimes pick up some of the garbage they so proudly disregard.
All I achieved was that I found it very very difficult to extend our stay here. Apparently the marina shrunk and now they had this one berth fewer.
Nothing is getting done by the well fed administration, and when a citizen attempts any form of protest, we get at best disregarded, and much more often threatened.
I have friends who attempted to stop commercial cutting down of trees in a native forest reserve. They got brutalized by the administration working on orders of the Minister of the Environment.
We are not being listened to. And when we speak up or take action, we are faced with the government aligning with the business.
I wish it were otherwise, but somehow reality is just as it is: less forest, more sewage, and activists treated as criminals.
So what I am saying is our individual action IS NOT ENOUGH. And top down action by the governments is NOT GETTING DONE.
It is a sad view.
barnakiel
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04-07-2020, 07:52
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 25,453
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch
It would be so simple to ban single use plastic, if the petro companies didn't own the politicians.
It's use is just ridiculous. I don't need a "hard to open sealed plastic housing" around every damn widget I buy. In fact I don't want one even if there weren't eco issues!
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard
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04-07-2020, 08:10
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 20,420
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch
Yep. We have them here too. I call these blisters. Few companies use paper ones that I can place in the paper container. But the big shots (Panasonic, etc.) will stick with hard plastic ones. Pretty nasty choice, imho.
Imagine this - one regulation by the state and there would be no more hard plastic blisters next year. Why they refuse to make this regulation and disregard our asking is pretty clear.
b.
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04-07-2020, 08:18
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 25,453
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel
Yep. We have them here too. I call these blisters. Few companies use paper ones that I can place in the paper container. But the big shots (Panasonic, etc.) will stick with hard plastic ones. Pretty nasty choice, imho.
Imagine this - one regulation by the state and there would be no more hard plastic blisters next year. Why they refuse to make this regulation and disregard our asking is pretty clear.
b.
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A few places have banned single use plastics but not nearly enough.
I loved the old hardware stores, there were bins with unpackaged items, switches, valves etc etc. WTH was wrong with that?
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard
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04-07-2020, 08:46
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2018
Boat: Allied Princess 36 MKII
Posts: 490
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako
A few places have banned single use plastics but not nearly enough.
I loved the old hardware stores, there were bins with unpackaged items, switches, valves etc etc. WTH was wrong with that?
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Having spent far more time in retail than I care to remember, I can tell you this: we live in a society who, for the most part, doesn't want to purchase something that isn't *new*. I have literally dealt with those who require an item be opened to verify fit/function/compatibility or whatever, then refuse to purchase that item ^^insisting on the same item in a sealed package^^
Literally had a salesman do this to me yesterday for my water pump">raw water pump impeller. *HE* opened the package to verify I don't even remember what, then resealed it, put it back, and got me another one (identical) and stated here, this one hasn't been opened. I honestly didn't have words...
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04-07-2020, 08:49
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington State
Boat: Colvin, Saugeen Witch (Aluminum), 34'
Posts: 2,269
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch
Retailers like oversized, bulletproof plastic packaging to deter shoplifting.
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04-07-2020, 08:55
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: On a sphere in a planetary system
Boat: 1977 Bristol 29.9 Hull #17
Posts: 730
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch
We all know how to fix our earthly problems, but we as a species won’t do it because it will require teamwork, learning and sacrifices in our daily lives. Harsh? yes, but true none the less.
Have fun storming the castle....
Fair winds,
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04-07-2020, 09:08
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: PNW 48.59'45N 122.45'50W
Boat: Ian Ross design ketch 63'
Posts: 1,472
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch
In my quest to eliminate plastic I found a company that sells shampoo and conditioning "bars". No plastic, no packaging other than the paper envelope in which it's shipped. Better than that, it's a very good product. Look up theearthlingco.com.
I guess my point is that the companies that are looking at the problem don't have the advertising budget of the mega corporations and are therefore harder to find. I have to sit at the computer and search to find a product and hope its a good product when it arrives (not all are). When I do find a good one, I tell all my like minded friends on a FB page for sailors who care about the environment.
These are all tiny steps, I know. Am I having an impact? Not a clue. But I believe that the trash starts with the consumer. If I don't buy the product one less container is in the trash cycle. That product still exists for someone else to buy but I stopped it at my doorstep.
Go ahead and chuckle at the small steps. It's what I can do.
__________________
It's what you learn after you know it all that counts...
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04-07-2020, 09:30
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Georgian Bay
Boat: Ericson 35-2
Posts: 162
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch
I went to the marina office asking if the dazillion of 'marinheros' that cruise this marina on a pretty regular basis (burning heaps of fossil fuel) could perhaps sometimes pick up some of the garbage they so proudly disregard."
I used to think sailors were better at this... garbage, nature, environment etc etc... but have been regularly disabused of this naive notion. And it saddens me.
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04-07-2020, 09:37
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#14
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 16,306
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch
Quote:
Originally Posted by redhead
In my quest to eliminate plastic I found a company that sells shampoo and conditioning "bars". No plastic, no packaging other than the paper envelope in which it's shipped. Better than that, it's a very good product. Look up theearthlingco.com.
I guess my point is that the companies that are looking at the problem don't have the advertising budget of the mega corporations and are therefore harder to find. I have to sit at the computer and search to find a product and hope its a good product when it arrives (not all are). When I do find a good one, I tell all my like minded friends on a FB page for sailors who care about the environment.
These are all tiny steps, I know. Am I having an impact? Not a clue. But I believe that the trash starts with the consumer. If I don't buy the product one less container is in the trash cycle. That product still exists for someone else to buy but I stopped it at my doorstep.
Go ahead and chuckle at the small steps. It's what I can do.
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Lots of small steps add up to a big step.
Remember the environmental mantra. "Think globally, act locally."
Everyone should take personal responsibility for their own little part of the world, like buying shampoo without the plastic bottle. I wash and reuse plastic bags. Of course take your own bags to the store.
At the same time push for global change. I think and hope it helps environmental change that I donate to Greenpeace and Sierra Club.
And keep sending those cards and letters to the politicians. Sooner or later some of them will get the message.
AND!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't forget to vote.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
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04-07-2020, 10:03
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: On a sphere in a planetary system
Boat: 1977 Bristol 29.9 Hull #17
Posts: 730
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Re: NOT Just the Garbage Patch
Quote:
Originally Posted by redhead
In my quest to eliminate plastic I found a company that sells shampoo and conditioning "bars". No plastic, no packaging other than the paper envelope in which it's shipped. Better than that, it's a very good product. Look up theearthlingco.com.
I guess my point is that the companies that are looking at the problem don't have the advertising budget of the mega corporations and are therefore harder to find. I have to sit at the computer and search to find a product and hope its a good product when it arrives (not all are). When I do find a good one, I tell all my like minded friends on a FB page for sailors who care about the environment.
These are all tiny steps, I know. Am I having an impact? Not a clue. But I believe that the trash starts with the consumer. If I don't buy the product one less container is in the trash cycle. That product still exists for someone else to buy but I stopped it at my doorstep.
Go ahead and chuckle at the small steps. It's what I can do.
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Thanks for the tip, and link, it all starts with us not purposefully purchasing landfill, every bit helps, you are doing the right thing! If we all pitch in it can have a larger impact.
Fair winds,
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