My boat is merrily drifting west in the Caribbean sea

[Albinvega27]

Originally Posted by BugzyCan

First thing to do is edit your original post to remove the name of the boat so some pirate doesn't tow it off and salvage it for parts.

I guess, if the Skipper is not anymore on board, there is no piracy called. Sea Law states, who find a abandoned boat in international waters, is the owner. Ask Australian Coast Guard officers. Some of them have found nice boats

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Albinvega27

I guess, if the Skipper is not anymore on board, there is no piracy called. Sea Law states, who find a abandoned boat in international waters, is the owner. Ask Australian Coast Guard officers. Some of them have found nice boats

Admiralty law states that whoever salvages a vessel is entitled to reasonable salvage fees based on the effort, risk and preparation needed to perform the operation and the value of the vessel and cargo. They are not entitled to ownership.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Because I know that Cruisers Forum loves a good disaster story, I thought I'd better get ahead of the game

https://boatwatch.org/news/uk-citize...and-two-ships/

The short of it is, Prout Snowgoose 35 left Bonaire to St Maarten. Mostly motoring/motorsailing.

Genoa blew. Repairs failed. Boat could not be sailed with main and stay sail only.

Skipper (me) heads toward St Criox.

Unfavourable weather comes a bit earlier and expect, and motoring speeds are down to 1-2knts. Eventually runs out of fuel.

Knowing the fuel wouldn't be enough Pan Pans were put out a day or two before.

The boat drifts west for a day and half with a sea anchor out. It sits beam onto the seas. As the weather deteriorates, the boat becomes further damaged (rudder tie-bar, and interior damage). A DSC 'adrift' message is sent out.

Coastguard comes out 150nm and attempts to refuel the boat but the conditions are getting worse.

Eventually a decision is made to leave the boat in knowledge what the weather was going to get worse or be sustained the next 4-5 days.

The boat was left with AIS on and navigation lights on. Quickly drifting west should be about south 100nm of the west coat of Puerto Rico by now.

Last satellite AIS update was 3rd Jan.

Just mulling over tactics for Prouts..
With conventionally rigged cats I have found they will sit barepoled with their stern quarter to the seas and wind drifting fairly happily, however with the Prouts mast being set so far back... virtually at the front end of the cockpit the dynamics are completely different.. this would explain the inclination to lie beam on much like a mono..
Was your sea anchor streamed from the bow or the stern.. if from the stern it seems to me that would be less effective considering the centre of effort.
Also.. considering the mast set up could the main and stay sail not be used to heave to, or possibly just the main to keep the bows quartering the seas rather than trying to run before.
Not a criticism in any way just seeking opinions from other Prout owners on the behavior of these boats and ideas for surviving similar events with minimum damage.
My experience is limited to two deliveries of these boats and know they suck going to windward under engine in any decent wind and seas over 1 metre, they slam themselves to a crawl so looking for ideas in case I find myself in a similar situation.
I usually experiment with different things anyway but heads up are always appreciated.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

The boat was left with AIS on and navigation lights on. Quickly drifting west should be about south 100nm of the west coat of Puerto Rico by now.

Last satellite AIS update was 3rd Jan.

so what is your plan?

[hurricanehole]

Thks for the failed steering description. Building a new hydraulic system for my Snowgoose right now. Building mockups for that part that failed on you, getting the angles and strength good. Sorry your boat is mia, good luck on finding it.

[Snowgoose35]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Just mulling over tactics for Prouts..
With conventionally rigged cats I have found they will sit barepoled with their stern quarter to the seas and wind drifting fairly happily, however with the Prouts mast being set so far back... virtually at the front end of the cockpit the dynamics are completely different.. this would explain the inclination to lie beam on much like a mono..
Was your sea anchor streamed from the bow or the stern.. if from the stern it seems to me that would be less effective considering the centre of effort.
Also.. considering the mast set up could the main and stay sail not be used to heave to, or possibly just the main to keep the bows quartering the seas rather than trying to run before.
Not a criticism in any way just seeking opinions from other Prout owners on the behavior of these boats and ideas for surviving similar events with minimum damage.
My experience is limited to two deliveries of these boats and know they suck going to windward under engine in any decent wind and seas over 1 metre, they slam themselves to a crawl so looking for ideas in case I find myself in a similar situation.
I usually experiment with different things anyway but heads up are always appreciated.

As I said above , if the stay sail is moved to the genoa foil up front it is the equivalent of a double reefed genoa and would provide enough push to go downwind and steer

My own choice would be to run the spare main Carl said was onboard on the stay sail foil (its a roller furling main so has a bolt rope that will fit the track) and go wing and wing - though I've not tried that to be fair.

I have used a small storm jib about the size of the stay sail probably smaller actually) on the genoa track though and got IIRC about 6 knots down wind in about 35 knots of wind on a Snowgoose 35.

I never really got the boat to heave to successfully (we practiced every possible tactic under sail when we bought her, storm tactics, anchoring and mooring under sail, using storm sails and "breaking" sails to improvise ) but with sea room I'd just always recommend running off downwind - they're stable and comfortable that way. We also put eye bolts on the rudders on the 35 so that ropes could be clipped on and run round the sheet winches to steer if the hydraulics went. No good for fine manoeuvring but worked well for general direction keeping

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Snowgoose35

As I said above , if the stay sail is moved to the genoa foil up front it is the equivalent of a double reefed genoa and would provide enough push to go downwind and steer

My own choice would be to run the spare main Carl said was onboard on the stay sail foil (its a roller furling main so has a bolt rope that will fit the track) and go wing and wing - though I've not tried that to be fair.

I have used a small storm jib about the size of the stay sail probably smaller actually) on the genoa track though and got IIRC about 6 knots down wind in about 35 knots of wind on a Snowgoose 35.

I never really got the boat to heave to successfully (we practiced every possible tactic under sail when we bought her, storm tactics, anchoring and mooring under sail, using storm sails and "breaking" sails to improvise ) but with sea room I'd just always recommend running off downwind - they're stable and comfortable that way. We also put eye bolts on the rudders on the 35 so that ropes could be clipped on and run round the sheet winches to steer if the hydraulics went. No good for fine manoeuvring but worked well for general direction keeping

Thanks for the feedback.. pretty much what I figured but good to have the thoughts of an owner..

[Chris8120]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Because I know that Cruisers Forum loves a good disaster story, I thought I'd better get ahead of the game

Possibly the most prudent bit of seamanship since the invention of the internet.

[atoll]

not tried it but i would have thought when lying to a sea anchor leaving the main up with 3 reefs in and centered would keep the bows up to weather.

i also found that laying to the stay sail on the port tack with the helm over to starboard kept the boat fore reaching slowly.

on other cats have found running off and hand steering optimal in big seas if sea room allows.

just about any sail can be used loose footed down wind.

[Rory_M]

Originally Posted by hurricanehole

Thks for the failed steering description. Building a new hydraulic system for my Snowgoose right now. Building mockups for that part that failed on you, getting the angles and strength good. Sorry your boat is mia, good luck on finding it.

Ive sent hurricanehole a PM as I am planning a hydraulic replacement steering system as well. Hoping to tuck the steering cylinder inside the beam and fabricate a longer Pitman arm. Id welcome ideas and pictures.


Rory

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Just mulling over tactics for Prouts..
With conventionally rigged cats I have found they will sit barepoled with their stern quarter to the seas and wind drifting fairly happily, however with the Prouts mast being set so far back... virtually at the front end of the cockpit the dynamics are completely different.. this would explain the inclination to lie beam on much like a mono..
Was your sea anchor streamed from the bow or the stern.. if from the stern it seems to me that would be less effective considering the centre of effort.
Also.. considering the mast set up could the main and stay sail not be used to heave to, or possibly just the main to keep the bows quartering the seas rather than trying to run before.
Not a criticism in any way just seeking opinions from other Prout owners on the behavior of these boats and ideas for surviving similar events with minimum damage.
My experience is limited to two deliveries of these boats and know they suck going to windward under engine in any decent wind and seas over 1 metre, they slam themselves to a crawl so looking for ideas in case I find myself in a similar situation.
I usually experiment with different things anyway but heads up are always appreciated.

The drogue was from the cleats on the bow. I did get the main out do see if would help position it bow into the wind. Pretty much zero difference, which was not what I expected given how much the main affects the steering when sailing.

Massive slamming has always been an issue going to wind in seas less than 10 seconds apart and a 1m or more. The previous installation of the head sink was ripped out by this, and my new installation with extra glass reinforcement was alway coming away.

Between Piscadera and Spanish Water in Curacao, the slamming at 2 knts was bad enough to break a mast tang. The waves that day were 1m and but 4 seconds apart, with waves of half height in between. Fun ride.

The hulls being solid glass flex massively. Even at anchor in a choppy anchorage you could stand and watch the V of the hull try to come closer together. The volume of air they moved was impressive. Like standing in front of a massive sub woofer at a club.

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

so what is your plan?

Sit in a comfortable hotel room/apartment (I have no home) and wait and see if a signal gets picked up again at some point, and mostly get on with the next stage of my life. Which hopefully involves a KTM 890 Adventure

Originally Posted by hurricanehole

Thks for the failed steering description. Building a new hydraulic system for my Snowgoose right now. Building mockups for that part that failed on you, getting the angles and strength good. Sorry your boat is mia, good luck on finding it.

Ah the steering on the 35 is a difficult one, much discussed on the Facebook group.

Most no long have the original steering. Mine had two hydraulic steering cyclinders Vetus MTC72. The functioned worked well, but the cylinders were externally mounted and the chrome shaft would pit causing leakages.

I had them fail between Menorca and Sardina, repaired them. Then bought new ones in Greece, they lasted a year. Bought new ones in Almerimar which lasted for the Atlnatic crossing. 2 weeks was the shortest one has lasted. Vetus say they are not to be mounted externally. I switched to big Hydrive unit. Then added a tie bar externally.

This wasn't the ideal setup. I wanted to put tiller arms on the rudder stocks but there is no space internally.


Separately in terms of the sails. The genoa was poor but sufficient to begin with. It's one of those things I'd been meaning to replace. Even got quotes within the 6 months of buying the boat, but you know how it goes. Had it requoted twice the last time in curacao, but never got around to it.

When I re-rigged the boat, I wanted the riggers to get a nice tight forestay but this isn't possible with a Prout. Going into strong winds there would be massive sag/bend in the forestay. Combined with an oversized outboard sheeted genoa with no padded luff, and massive belly, the tacking angles were 120 degrees even more when furled.

My plan was to a new one made flatter cut, in the original size using the original in board (on the coach roof) tracks.

One thing to note was that the foils on the furler for the genoa were 6mm or 1/4" verses the more common 5mm for main and stay sail.