Lost rudder in the pacific, outside Marshall

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

The hydrovane is limited to the size of boat it will work on.

I don't really know the percentage of rudder failures caused by striking an object vs corrosion/fatigue failures and the hydrovane as a solution would depend on that somewhat. I think I'd be happy with it as a precaution though.

The thing is that corrosion induced rudder failures can be reduced or practically stopped by adequate maintenance and inspection. Impact losses are just tough luck. I've seen incredible damage to a cruising boat when a whale came up just at the wrong time.

[svmobert]

Originally Posted by B00B00

Pretty sure it's just a fiberglass rudder stock. Same as we have in the beneteau 50.
I pulled mine out twice to check it during our trip from europe to nz. Once in Spain and again in Panama.
We broke the tiller/lever arm for the autopilot ram and flogged the hole in the stock out a bit as it was no longer clamped firmly around the stock but instead loading directly on the oil., After fixing it in the Galapagos we had to fill and redrill it.
To be honest I was never that confident in the whole steering setup which was the reason I pulled it all apart twice in 1.5 years.
But 16,000nm on an already 10 year old boat with no big issues so I guess it was fine, and in fact was a lovely fast, comfortable boat.

It's not fiberglass, I have a 2006 SO45 and it's very clearly stainless steel. We have checked ours a few times and have had no issues. I did have the whole rudder stripped and refaired a few years ago because when we hauled it out there were a couple of blisters.

As others have mentioned, inspection and maintenance are keys to keeping boats from breaking at inopportune times. On average we have hauled our boat out for one thing or another once a year and done full inspections of everything below the waterline. Never found anything significant but at least we know.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by Paul L

The hydrovane solves both the storage and the setup in heavy seas backup rudder problems. It has one significant downside. If you loose your main rudder due to impact, say with a log or a whale, it is likely to take the hydrovane with it.

Except that it is designed to work with the existing rudder in place giving lift and stability. It's likely to be overpowered easily on a fin keel boat that has completely lost its rudder.

[asistephen]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

I was on a boat (40 footer) years ago and we had to be towed about 50 miles. What I did was take a line from one winch in the cockpit (on starboard), up to the bow, then connected to a loop of anchor chain which was taken outside the bow and pulpit, then back to another line going back to a winch on the port side.


The tow line was connected to the chain. All worked really well and no chafe. Also taking it to the main winches spread the load and I doubt the anchor winch would have done it.

Can you please do s drawing for me of that towing set up your talking about ?

Thanks

[asistephen]

I’m pretty sure one of the boats Iv been considering Or looked at online said it has an emergencey rudder on board . It’s actually the forward cabin door and a emergency tiller linked directly above the rudder. I’m reluctant to name the boat in case I’m wrong. But it’s that kind of design thought that makes me really warm to a certain manufacturer over others .

[Fi2010]

Originally Posted by saltfree

Hydrovane. That is all. Self-steering during normal navigation, and a ready backup in case of main rudder failure. Must have.

The Hydrovane and Monitor wind vanes are good back ups for emergency steering. Hydrovane is easy and quick to set up for emergency steering. The Monitor requires a boot.

The recommendation to offset the Hydrovane to one side of the boat doesn’t make sense. This only permits you to sail on one tack. What happens if you need to sail on the opposite tack? Can’t do it.

The Monitor wind vane has a swing gate invention that opens up like a door. This allows a sailor to gain access to ladders, the transom door garage, and other obstructions. The gate closes when it’s time to use the Monitor for ocean passage. There’s also two stainless dolls you can pull up to remove the entire unit which weighs slightly over 50 lbs. The Hydrovane weighs slightly over 100 lbs.

There’s pros and cons to any device. If only we can get the media to list all of the details related to offshore equipment instead of some of the facts. We could then make better decisions on what works best for us.

[B23iL23]

Ok here you go - A very rough layout of how it was done. The idea is to reduce the chafe at the bow and also send the load to the strongest point on the boat. I think with the snatching loads on tow, the mooring cleats are not great. You can also take a loop of rope from the chain around the base of the mast (assuming it's not deck stepped).

it's not clear in the drawing but the chain passes through the fair-leads at the bow.

Originally Posted by asistephen

Can you please do s drawing for me of that towing set up your talking about ?

Thanks

[Fi2010]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Ok here you go - A very rough layout of how it was done. The idea is to reduce the chafe at the bow and also send the load to the strongest point on the boat. I think with the snatching loads on tow, the mooring cleats are not great. You can also take a loop of rope from the chain around the base of the mast (assuming it's not deck stepped).

it's not clear in the drawing but the chain passes through the fair-leads at the bow.

B23iL23,

Your illustration really helps out. This should work quite well since many tugboat operations use similar setups.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Except that it is designed to work with the existing rudder in place giving lift and stability. It's likely to be overpowered easily on a fin keel boat that has completely lost its rudder.

All emergency rudders will have reduced area and reduced strenght to a main rudder. It isn't practical to have an essentially duplicate setup. You are going to have to reduce sail and probably sit out the worst weather before your start to your destination.
I'm still a little exposed of the Hydrovane because of its exposure to the same impact that takes out the main rudder.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Ok here you go - A very rough layout of how it was done. The idea is to reduce the chafe at the bow and also send the load to the strongest point on the boat. I think with the snatching loads on tow, the mooring cleats are not great. You can also take a loop of rope from the chain around the base of the mast (assuming it's not deck stepped).

it's not clear in the drawing but the chain passes through the fair-leads at the bow.

If that worked for you, then that's good, but I have a few reservations. The chain going through the fairleads or chocks may chew them up or eject them if there is any movement, so the line you have marked as tow rope should be something like dyneema so it will not stretch. Also, I am assuming for sake of simplicity in the drawing, it seems to be a flush deck boat. In most cases you'll need to run some leads, maybe with snatch blocks, to keep the tow lines off the house. I would hope that most cruising boats have substantial enough mooring bits or samson posts or cleats to handle the loads of a tow though, just as they should be able to handle a storm at anchor.

[Fi2010]

Originally Posted by Don C L

If that worked for you, then that's good, but I have a few reservations. The chain going through the fairleads or chocks may chew them up or eject them if there is any movement, so the line you have marked as tow rope should be something like dyneema so it will not stretch.

Valid points.

Any type of Dyneema or Spectra rope should be mixed with another fiber to avoid slippage. Straight dyneema can also chafe easily. Braided Dacron is a good alternative to limit the stretch.

You don’t have to use chain for the bridle. If you do, then apply really good chafe gear.

[B23iL23]

So it was a modern design (about 18 years ago), no samson post - just two cleats and a windlass. Was told a long time ago to never tow connected to the windless and given that the snatch loads on a tow with short, steep waves, is far greater than the snatch loads at anchor, something stronger than a cleat was needed.

The idea of the lines back to the cleats to to spread the load to strong points but also to have a little elasticity (not much). If I remember correctly, we stopped half way into the tow and added an anchor to the mid point of the tow line - this kept the line tight even when we surged forward and the line started to go slack. Stopped a lot of the resulting snatching as the tow came back on.

Originally Posted by Don C L

If that worked for you, then that's good, but I have a few reservations. The chain going through the fairleads or chocks may chew them up or eject them if there is any movement, so the line you have marked as tow rope should be something like dyneema so it will not stretch. Also, I am assuming for sake of simplicity in the drawing, it seems to be a flush deck boat. In most cases you'll need to run some leads, maybe with snatch blocks, to keep the tow lines off the house. I would hope that most cruising boats have substantial enough mooring bits or samson posts or cleats to handle the loads of a tow though, just as they should be able to handle a storm at anchor.

[stillbuilding]

Just curious - anyone know what brand this drogue is? Seemed about right for my 60’ yacht. Was mounted on the stern and held in place by a pin- obviously not very securely cos it dropped off in a bit of a blow. Seemed like a good design with wings that opened in the water but were held closed out of the water. I would not mind getting another.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by stillbuilding

Just curious - anyone know what brand this drogue is? Seemed about right for my 60’ yacht. Was mounted on the stern and held in place by a pin- obviously not very securely cos it dropped off in a bit of a blow. Seemed like a good design with wings that opened in the water but were held closed out of the water. I would not mind getting another.
Attachment 182806

Looks like the old Seabrake.

Matt

[Fi2010]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Looks like the old Seabrake.

Matt

Yep, that's the original plastic one. It's discontinued. You might find one at a yacht surplus store.