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Old 28-06-2018, 10:23   #31
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Re: Loss of KELAERIN Rescue of Crew June 2018

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My concern with AIS is that it's typically fairly short range, in "vastness of the Pacific Ocean" terms. I'd almost certainly want a satellite based tracking system. It could be a few weeks before they're prepared to go looking for the boat, and in that time it could wander several hundred miles from civilization or shipping routes. AIS also requires functional external power and antenna, which could be total loss. A Spot has internal battery and antenna that, in my experience communicate with space fairly well, although not 100% reliable.
Relatively short range, yes but you should easily get 20-25 mile radius. Flying over in a search plane maybe double or triple that.

Not extremely familiar with SPOT devices but unless connected to ship's power I think you will have a very short window to go back and find the boat. Off the top of my head I recall reading that some of these satellite devices like SPOT and Inreach only have a day or so on the internal batteries, depending on the settings.
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Old 28-06-2018, 10:40   #32
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Re: Loss of KELAERIN Rescue of Crew June 2018

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Relatively short range, yes but you should easily get 20-25 mile radius. Flying over in a search plane maybe double or triple that.

Not extremely familiar with SPOT devices but unless connected to ship's power I think you will have a very short window to go back and find the boat. Off the top of my head I recall reading that some of these satellite devices like SPOT and Inreach only have a day or so on the internal batteries, depending on the settings.
I hadn't even thought about a flyby to look for the boat - that makes obvious sense!

The SPOT claims to be able to perform "1,250 Check In and Custom Messages on a Single set of Lithium batteries". It can be configured in auto update increments from 2.5 to 60 minutes. At 60 minute checkins that'd be over 50 days of remote tracking. Those settings can't be changed on the unit, but it can be turned on and off locally, and the auto update enabled locally. Changing the increment requires it to be attached to a computer.

It seems like the auto checkin could be set to 30 or 60 minutes to get you really close to a drifting target. The checkin history could be used to estimate course and speed. Once in reasonable range AIS will pinpoint the boat and steer you straight in.

The problem we've had is that it goes to sleep if it doesn't detect vibration. So you'd probably want to hang it from a cleat on the mast before you abandoned the boat so it could bang into the mast periodically. I don't believe there is a way to disable that feature. It also has external USB battery port to extend life.
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Old 28-06-2018, 10:51   #33
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Re: Loss of KELAERIN Rescue of Crew June 2018

Clearly a brave and experienced crew. I would not have done nearly as well.

Still, it's another example of HF radio being useless in a distress situation leaving only an EPIRB as a last hope. What if it had been lost in the mess? Or what if their EPIRB contacts had not convinced the CG that it wasn't a false alarm. 97% of EPIRB activations are false alarms. Tough odds to risk the lives of the chopper crew 180 miles out without some other confirmation.

I now won't go offshore without an InReach (I have an EPIRB too). Because it is two way, it allows SAR to instantly verify the situation as well as to send details of the planned rescue. In tough conditions, I wear it on a lanyard around my neck.
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Old 28-06-2018, 10:53   #34
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Re: Loss of KELAERIN Rescue of Crew June 2018

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Originally Posted by LoudMusic View Post
I hadn't even thought about a flyby to look for the boat - that makes obvious sense!

The SPOT claims to be able to perform "1,250 Check In and Custom Messages on a Single set of Lithium batteries". It can be configured in auto update increments from 2.5 to 60 minutes. At 60 minute checkins that'd be over 50 days of remote tracking. Those settings can't be changed on the unit, but it can be turned on and off locally, and the auto update enabled locally. Changing the increment requires it to be attached to a computer.

It seems like the auto checkin could be set to 30 or 60 minutes to get you really close to a drifting target. The checkin history could be used to estimate course and speed. Once in reasonable range AIS will pinpoint the boat and steer you straight in.

The problem we've had is that it goes to sleep if it doesn't detect vibration. So you'd probably want to hang it from a cleat on the mast before you abandoned the boat so it could bang into the mast periodically. I don't believe there is a way to disable that feature. It also has external USB battery port to extend life.
External USB power connection to a SPOT might be the ticket. The ideal I think would be satellite based tracking if you have the battery life issue dealt with.

Another consideration, what device will already be active and connected? Will you have time to start setting up a tracker for the boat when you're trying to abandon ship and remember critical personal items?
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Old 28-06-2018, 11:00   #35
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Re: Loss of KELAERIN Rescue of Crew June 2018

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External USB power connection to a SPOT might be the ticket. The ideal I think would be satellite based tracking if you have the battery life issue dealt with.

Another consideration, what device will already be active and connected? Will you have time to start setting up a tracker for the boat when you're trying to abandon ship and remember critical personal items?
That's a good point. The tracker could/should be operational from the moment you haul anchor. If everything is progressing as expected, its internal battery should be topped up until tragedy strikes. And your friends and family will know where you are with a hopefully calmed piece of mind.
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Old 28-06-2018, 11:58   #36
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Re: Loss of KELAERIN Rescue of Crew June 2018

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I get what you mean, but it might well have been a little macho exultation in the face of the successful rescue!! I really doubt it was quite that close!
I agree, I doubt that they had only one minute of fuel left when they reached land, and for a helicopter that's usually enough since they don't need a runway.

I'm glad they're safe, but sad for their loss.
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Old 28-06-2018, 12:24   #37
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Re: Loss of KELAERIN Rescue of Crew June 2018

[QUOTE=Rigdaddy;2661827]I agree, I doubt that they had only one minute of fuel left when they reached land, and for a helicopter that's usually enough since they don't need a runway.



They need something to land on. If it didn't end up flotsam, It would have sunk like a rock.
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Old 28-06-2018, 12:48   #38
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Re: Loss of KELAERIN Rescue of Crew June 2018

Wow, what an incredible story! Joy told it well. A number of lessons in there but I don't have nearly the experience to be able to second-guess anything they did. Very happy they were rescued.
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Old 28-06-2018, 12:49   #39
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Re: Loss of KELAERIN Rescue of Crew June 2018

A USCG pilot never wants to hear “Bingo!”
Better to be a Joker.

Military pilots have a predetermined minimum limit of fuel necessary to make it safely from base to target and back. When they reach close to that limit, they (or someone on their crew) says “Joker” (we are running very low) and then when they reach that limit beyond which they are at great risk of not making it back to base safely (before running out of fuel), they reach “Bingo.”

Before Bingo, they may break off whatever they were trying to do, in order to make it safely to a landing place.

When flying over land, a pilot can look for a place to land safely by diverting from his original destination (usually home base). He can divert to another landing area. That is not possible when too far out to sea. Hence the added risk of flights over the ocean, especially when near their operational limit (distance).
_________

During the famous “Perfect Storm” (October 1991) one of the rescue helicopters (an Air Force “Pave Hawk” Blackhawk variant) ran too low on fuel after attempting rescue, far offshore, and had to ditch, during the storm, with loss of aircrew. A tragic end for those heroes.
_________

“Due to the severity of the storm (a weather buoy located 264 miles (425 kilometers) south of Halifax, Nova Scotia, reported a wave height of 100.7 feet (30.7 meters) on 30 October—the highest ever recorded in that part of the Atlantic Ocean) the Pave Hawk crew was unable to make the rescue and had to return to their base. Having already refueled from the Lockheed HC-130 Hercules tanker three times during the mission, and with low fuel, a fourth refueling was needed for the helicopter to make it back to the mainland. Because of the the extreme turbulence and lack of visibility, Jolly 110 could not make contact with the refueling drogue trailing behind the airplane. Major Ruvola made more than 30 attempts, but finally both drogues had been damaged by the severe conditions. With just twenty minutes of fuel remaining, Jolly 110 would have to ditch in the middle of “The Perfect Storm.””

“The Pave Hawk had gone down 90 miles (145 kilometers) south of Montauk Point in 100-knot (185 kilometers per hour) winds and 80-foot (25 meter) waves. After five hours in the water, four airmen were rescued by USCGC Tamaroa (WMEC-166), a 48-year-old former U.S. Navy fleet tug, operated by the Coast Guard since the end of World War II as a medium endurance cutter.”

Read more about those heroes here:
https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/30-october-1991/
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Old 28-06-2018, 13:03   #40
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Re: Loss of KELAERIN Rescue of Crew June 2018

I see no mention of heaving too. Probably with the addition of a drogue. I am half way around the world presently and I am finding quite a few boats without the ability to do this important heavy weather manuver. I have been heaved too in 55 knots and six meter seas just SW of Minerva Reef south of Tonga. No Drogue. Kind of surprised nobody has mentioned Heaving Too. Love to hear others thoughts on this.
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Old 28-06-2018, 13:08   #41
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Loss of KELAERIN Rescue of Crew June 2018

US Army helicopter was required to have 20 min fuel upon reaching destination, seems USCG is similar.
See page 15.
https://media.defense.gov/2017/Feb/2..._2014_10_1.PDF
Bingo fuel is the fuel state at which if you leave now, you will terminate the mission with 20 min of fuel remaining.
The 20 min is calculated at normal cruise, OGE hover may as much as double that fuel burn. We never used Joker. I had to look that up.

Fuel state is never known to the minute, the gauges are not that accurate. I’d bet that landing with 1 min fuel remaining meant, 1 min until you hit your 20 min reserve. If you land with nearly zero fuel, you don’t talk about it. You screwed up, you don’t advertise that.
Army you had to plan to have 20 min fuel, sometimes due to unforcasted wind etc., you didn’t. But you had to plan on 20.

Closest I ever cut it was I put in 380 gls of fuel in the FARRP, aircraft only held 376, I’m sure I ran out if you will when fuel was being pumped in, both engines were running so I was burning it as it was being filled up.
But I had been at the FARRP for several minutes awaiting priority traffic to go first, worst case I would have had to have the truck come to me, but would have been chewed out I’m sure.
Running out or nearly running out of fuel is a very good way to lose your PIC status, and is not conducive to your career.
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Old 28-06-2018, 13:25   #42
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Re: Loss of KELAERIN Rescue of Crew June 2018

A very sad story indeed. There really aren't words...

As to the abandonment, it really was the only option. No engine, and no likelihood that it could be brought back into service, shredded sails and a broken steering pedestal with the potential for steering problems, all 180 miles to weather of one of the most dangerous coasts in the world. Under such conditions they would most likely end up on the rocks, but even if they came close to a harbor they had little chance of a tow in with the heavy seas (it would have been extremely dangerous for a sound yacht to attempt an entrance). I expect that it was a very hard truth to accept, but they did the right thing.

I think many of us get a bit relaxed over the years regarding securing everything from a potential rollover. Initially I was going to add screws to keep the floorboards in place, add something to hold the (heavy) reefer cover down, hooks for lacing or netting the bookshelves and cookware/tableware, something to secure the companionway hatch closed, etc. As my initial concerns subsided with experience these tasks dropped to the bottom of the to-do list. And seeing how much worse the preparations were on other boats didn't help. Perhaps we should all reconsider. OTOH in such extreme conditions all bets are off - they were lucky to still have the mast up. Nonetheless, keeping the boat closed could have been a critical difference - that does need to move up the list.

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Old 28-06-2018, 13:27   #43
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Re: Loss of KELAERIN Rescue of Crew June 2018

It surprises most sailors to learn how a breaking wave does not have to be very high to cause a capsize or roll.
______

“Research a decade or so ago by the Wolfson Unit at University of Southampton University concluded that for a 10m yacht, ‘you only need a breaking wave of 3m to pose a risk of capsize’.

Various types of boat and keel type were tested. A wave height of 60 per cent of the boat’s length capsized all the models they tested. So just to spell this out, a 32-footer would almost certainly be capsized by a breaking wave with a height of as little as 20ft.”
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Old 28-06-2018, 13:40   #44
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Re: Loss of KELAERIN Rescue of Crew June 2018

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It surprises most sailors to learn how a breaking wave does not have to be very high to cause a capsize or roll.
______

“Research a decade or so ago by the Wolfson Unit at University of Southampton University concluded that for a 10m yacht, ‘you only need a breaking wave of 3m to pose a risk of capsize’.

Various types of boat and keel type were tested. A wave height of 60 per cent of the boat’s length capsized all the models they tested. So just to spell this out, a 32-footer would almost certainly be capsized by a breaking wave with a height of as little as 20ft.”
Where is the wave hitting the boat?
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Old 28-06-2018, 13:42   #45
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Re: Loss of KELAERIN Rescue of Crew June 2018

Thanks for sharing Steadman:

Wow. Glad to read that they were saved and without major injuries. Kind of a sad ending to an otherwise wonderful adventure for the couple and so close to being home.

There being things to learn from other's experience, and from your own.

Sounds like they got hit by a very harsh, breaking wave, while running bare pole, were swept and rolled upside down or nearly so since she said she hit the ceiling. Above deck, the life raft and dingy were torn loose from their mounts and swept away and the mainsail pulled out of its stack pack; not sure how the sail spilled, apparently it was not lashed tightly to the boom. Fortunately he was able to hold on to the pedestal, [which broke] and she was not hit by anything heavy or sharp, or tossed across the boat, seems like she was contained inside her bunk space and just tumbled between the mattress and the bunk ceiling.

That means everything was tossed and things that are ordinarily held in place by gravity were caused to become freed. I suspect this is what might have happened to the companion way ladder, many of those are movable by just lifting, they should not be. Everything has to be able to be made fixed.

NOW is the time to take time to look at your boat and imagine is laid over 90 degrees or made rolled upside down. Everything that will be displaced by such rearrangement of angle needs to be able to be permanently secured, or readily made secured before severe conditions arise. Items has to be able to be held upside down, and carry there full weight and the add force of inertia.

Yes, kind of stating the obvious here.

Before the storm - Secure for severe weather. Secure for weather more severe then expected. Kind of like reefing before the wind arrives.

Close and secure a sturdy companionway. Open temporarily only for ingress and egress.

Dog all the latches to the all the hatches AND dog all cabinets [including the medicine cabinet] and the appliances [especially the refrigerator and freezer] but also lock or strap the door of the oven and microwave oven [yes the roundtable will fall out of the microwave and the racks will fall from the oven]. By this I mean not just the every day and convenient use magnetic or spring latches but instead sturdy manual wedge latches or other far sturdier locking mechanical latches or ties, not just hooks as hooks are held by gravity and they will fall out of the latch when the boat is laid over. Their scuba tanks came loose of the snap holders, most snap holders are not truly secure devices, by this I include the usual snap holders used for mounting fire extinguishers and for propane tanks.

DOG all the DRAWERS, its crazy scary to see the cutlery and knife drawer open and spill.

Secure the bilge cover floor plates, they need to be able to be held in place when upside down and with the added load of heavy water pressing from under them and the weight of all items loosely stored under the plates, "under" being for the moment of hazard thence the on top side. Ditto for ALL the locker cover plates as they need to be able to hold the combined weight and impact of everything that is in the locker, e.g., a spare anchor bashing about. Pull rings with spring latches are mostly just conveniences for pulling they often don't handle being pushed against with a load. As to the ubiquitous pull rings without latches, those are definitely not securing devices.

Secure ALL of your sundries, including your library. Yes, all of the clutter which there is an amazing lot of. Use large water tight boating bags to put everything away that is not placed inside a secured cabinet or locker, and then secure the bulky and now heavy bags, lashing them to secure holds. You don't want anything to be tossed and become flotsam that will bash about, or clog pumps or get into mechanical devices such as steering mechanisms. That includes all clothing, shoes, hats, etc.

Especially extra secure all heavy items, including tanks.

Provide for redundant critical electronics and secure the redundant devices in water tight containers or bags and secure those containers and bags in readily accessible location [not far forward under a bunk].

Pay attention to items that are not bolted in place, e.g., furniture, chairs, cushions and mattresses, sheets, blankets, towels, paper towels, bottles of cleaners, pillows, pictures, lamps, computers, tables, table tops, toasters, blenders / mixers, coffee makers, teapots, laundry, television / monitors, etc., etc., etc. and secure those as well. Those tables that are mounted on posts which post slips into a hole on the floor will become loose in an instant once gravity reverses.

In essence, you don't want anything like this happening.

It is not adequate to tie or lash things DOWN, they need to be tied to a secure holding device so they can't shift: her comments: "Things that had been in the aft cabin, including our spare Aries windvane which was tied down beneath the aft cabin berth, had been propelled incredibly through the walkthrough and into the main cabin . . . "

Secure bodies, including your own and don't forget that pets also tend to be tossed about. Secure with lee cloths and strap in. It is a long fall across the salon.

Add a good measure of sloshing water to the equation and it is amazing how much loose crap starts shifting and washing about.

Be certain that any and all flotsam will clog bilge pumps. There should not be any possibility of flotsam in the bilge or entrained into the bilge, or that could clog drainage openings in the floors of lockers or the salon / berth to the bilge. If their bilge pumps had not failed they more likely could have stabilized the situation during the hours that passed before the CG arrived.

Basically you want the boat to be able to survive being a tumbler and everything in it to also not be damaged or displaced and so you can locate things after a tumbling. A lot of stuff will become damaged and displaced in cabinets, so as they say on the airplanes, "shift happens", open cabinets with extreme caution and suggest you wait until after the storm and the seas have calmed.

She makes the comment: "The engine itself may have worked but the starter motor was surely dead as it was now underwater. The engine wouldn’t have helped anyway, not unless we could get closer to shore and now we were getting farther away every minute."
I have never tried using a starter that was flooded with salt water, but electricity will take the path of least resistance in forming a circuit and I perceive that the copper contacts of the relays and the solenoid and motor wiring would yield the lowest resistance pathway and thus carry the bulk of the low voltage current. Sure some electricity might flow through the salt water conduction but the leads to the relay / solenoid and motor if they were underwater would have been shorting as stray current through the salt water so completing the circuit by turning on the starter switch would reduce such stray conduction, higher resistance pathway. I suspect that the motor could have been started which would have aided in navigation instead of just running bare pole and perhaps provided another means to drain the bilge by pulling water from the bilge as cooling water, if the bilge and engine had been prepared for using the motor as a secondary bilge pump. Anyone have experience in starting a motor where the starter is under salt water and / or having used the cooling water pump as a secondary bilge pump? It would require the proper plumbing to allow for the bilge to be drained into the cooling water passage. An engine can draw a lot of cooling water, but again that water passage would need to be kept clean and not plugged by flotsam that is awash in the bilge.

Safe sailing.
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