Loss of KELAERIN Rescue of Crew June 2018

[Neptune's Gear]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Those do look good.

Is it the StormFighter that you have?

How much weight do you put out on then line?

To clarify, I advocate keeping crew safe down below rather than fighting storm at helm.

If no sea anchor, then laying Ahull would be better than staying outside

Yes, I have the stormfighter.
Weight - do you mean the catenary weights on the rode? 3 of them, about 2kg each IIRC. As supplied by coppins.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear

Yes, I have the stormfighter.
Weight - do you mean the catenary weights on the rode? 3 of them, about 2kg each IIRC. As supplied by coppins.

Great, is there a way that those who have deployed sea anchors can copy your posts and experiences to the Storm Prep thread?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I agree Cyan, I don't quite buy into the CG findings and I believe the problem is not enough weight to keep the parachute in deep water.

In my early days I put a lot heavy weather sea miles on, towing huge covered paper barges from Port Alberni as far as San Diego year round.

This was the Tug
Attachment 172989

Whenever we got into serious heavy weather, if in deep water, we would deploy most of our tow cable, so that the weight of the catenary coming tight acted as a shock absorber to prevent over stressing the cable.

I still think that an extended anchor chain with the parachute connected to anchor would keep chute fully deployed in deep water , acting as a catenary, with the bow self tending ....as the storm breakers rolled over and under the bow.

Again, our biggest problem is that not many try it out

Read the drag database, at least one guy did something similar, he attached the rode to the anchor and deployed chain, anchor, rode and chute. What was interesting to me was at one point he paid out 200’ of chain and then the bow started hunting around resulting in an uncomfortable motion, however with less chain it was stable.

A lot of us, spend a couple of hours reading the database and see what works and what doesn’t work on your size and type of boat, these are not theories, these are accounts of people who have been in the storm, and what they tried.
What I took away, is that chafe is the Queen Mother problem, and why I intend to attach my ride to the anchor chain and pay out at least 100’ of chain, plus the fact that I already have a system in place to very securely hold me at anchor, why try to reinvent something else to use when on a sea anchor.
It now has me wondering if attaching the rode to my anchor isn’t a bad plan, the anchor will sink of course, yes it will be pulled up to an enormous extent, extent based on pull of course.

However I called the manufacturer of my Para anchor and he was very much against weight at the chute, seeing as how he manufacturers the things and has I assume seen ones that we’re used in anger, I assume he has a reason.

[a64pilot]

This is the account where he let out anchor and chain. If you read it, you can tell this guy isn’t like me, the average Mom and Pop cruiser.
http://dragdevicedb.com/sea-anchors-...yana-42-cutter

There is another account of someone who had 50m of chain spliced in the middle of their rode, seemed to work well for them,

[GTom]

Sad story with lots of learning. Many thanks to the owners for the detailed and honest story!

My conclusions:
1. I'll get myself a drysuit instead of my current waterproofs, for heavy weather.
2. I'll see to all items that might fly away in case the boat is inverted. Currently I have long open shelves on both sides.
3. I'll get a spare waterproof battery for the VHF(?).
4. I'll keep the old valise liferaft I intended to ditch as a spare.
5. I'll read all the 10+pages of comments on drogues and get one.

I am glad they're safe, hopefully the boat will be found too.

[gatorman49]

Air Medal?

[fatherchronica]

There was an article in Cruising World several years ago that was interviews of 5 cruising couples each with over 200,000 miles in their wakes. 3 couples stated they had never been in survival situations and the other 2 said that only once had they feared for their lives and boats and both were offshore of the Pacific Northwest. I was a building contractor who spent many years building primarily 3 story buildings and I am pretty confidant that the mid October storm we encountered 100 miles west of Neah Bay produced 30 foot breaking seas. I was not scared at the time because I had too much to do, but my poor crew nearly swore off sailing. Dangerous waters, and what happens is often the luck of the draw.

[KPowell]

In a different forum two experienced captains mentioned waiting until July to make this passage as the high pressure system is better established. One of them had made this passage in June and had similar storm conditions and he said he would wait until July.

[Davie J.]

They got complacent over their 17 years: EVERYTHING must be secured in the event of a knockdown. Must always have a ditch kit. NEVER run before the wind under bare poles. Heave to and, if you have one, use a storm parachute. And, of course, always wear your harness.

[Cpt Pat]

Bravo Zulu Coast Guard.

[14murs14]

Originally Posted by laika

Thanks for sharing this. And a thanks to Joy and Jim for writing up the incident for us to absorb and learn from.

I think the one minute heli fuel reserve may have been one minute prior to their 30 minutes or whatever of safety reserve. Hard to believe they would cut it that close without some margin.

Quite sure it was. There's a 20 minute required reserve fuel requirement for helicopters and as a pilot I considered us "out of fuel" if we hit that. Fuel gauges in aircraft aren't accurate enough to let you know if you'll really flame out in exactly 60 seconds!

[14murs14]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Could be. Maybe there's a Coastie flight crew on here who could comment. It'll have to be a different incident to see in practice.

There isn't any written guidance on this. The crew and especially the swimmer just engaged in a pretty difficult and high-risk maneuver to get a swimmer on board the boat. They're going to do what they can to avoid doing that again in 2 hours when the survivors change their mind. A swimmer who just did a death-defying feat to get on a boat has both a lot of referent and positional power to convince a crew to get off, with time pressure helping move things along. I was never in a situation where that didn't work. At the end of the day the swimmer neither carries weapons or is trained or authorized to use force to remove a survivor from a vessel, so I suppose a very stubborn person could be left if they couldn't safely be removed. You can only do so much to thwart Darwin!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by 14murs14

There isn't any written guidance on this. The crew and especially the swimmer just engaged in a pretty difficult and high-risk maneuver to get a swimmer on board the boat. They're going to do what they can to avoid doing that again in 2 hours when the survivors change their mind. A swimmer who just did a death-defying feat to get on a boat has both a lot of referent and positional power to convince a crew to get off, with time pressure helping move things along. I was never in a situation where that didn't work. At the end of the day the swimmer neither carries weapons or is trained or authorized to use force to remove a survivor from a vessel, so I suppose a very stubborn person could be left if they couldn't safely be removed. You can only do so much to thwart Darwin!

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the insight.

[otseg]

Originally Posted by Davie J.

They got complacent over their 17 years: EVERYTHING must be secured in the event of a knockdown. Must always have a ditch kit. NEVER run before the wind under bare poles. Heave to and, if you have one, use a storm parachute. And, of course, always wear your harness.

Why do you say NEVER run under bare poles? That has worked for me a couple times with a drogue. Some waves washed over the boat to be sure but I had sea room and all things considered felt I was doing as good as could be expected.

[Laurie watson]

Originally Posted by Ecos

Really happy about the outcome but I would ground that pilot. That is reckless flying.

You are of course trying to be funny, wrong time and place for that. The story says how professional the crew was, I expect it was one minute plus the required reserve. Instead of making stupid comments you should compliment the crew on a great rescue