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Old 07-05-2021, 07:39   #61
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Re: Invisible Force Sinks Sub

Needless to say, I can't dismiss the idea of "old boat" and "poor maintenance", but I would not be so fast to snidely dismiss the idea of underwater waves. For a starter, I recommend reading this article https://www.hydro-international.com/...derwater-waves and I would further state that when flying, you find a similar issue that has taken many lives. It is the issue involved when mountain flying. When there is a wind current (say from the west) hitting the west side of a north/south mountain range, there is often an extreme downdraft on the east side of that range, sufficient in some cases to exceed the climb rate of a westbound aircraft approaching the east face of the range. It is fine to throw stones at Indonesia, but the old adage "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" should apply.
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Old 07-05-2021, 07:43   #62
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Re: Invisible Force Sinks Sub

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Needless to say, I can't dismiss the idea of "old boat" and "poor maintenance", but I would not be so fast to snidely dismiss the idea of underwater waves. ... It is fine to throw stones at Indonesia, but the old adage "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" should apply.
Fair enough, but per Occam's razor, the simplest solution is the most likely.

Human error
Mechanical failure
...
Underwater waves
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Old 07-05-2021, 09:39   #63
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Re: Invisible Force Sinks Sub

Not quite sure how to ask this question, but is there an academic discipline that would discuss such phenomena? Some here have dismissed the whole concept and perhaps that is legit. However, I’d be curious if there is any solid research into this. If it is BS produced by some guy covering for his military’s screw up, that is fine.
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Old 07-05-2021, 09:55   #64
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Re: Invisible Force Sinks Sub

Sounds like fugazy to me.
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Old 07-05-2021, 10:40   #65
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Re: Invisible Force Sinks Sub

As a number of posters have pointed out, there are a number of phenomena that are not well understood. Solitons, microbursts, strange currents up/down/sideways …..

If they’d come out with this explanation a year from now, "After a lot of study we discovered [this strange phenomenon] which we think caused the accident," I’d be a whole lot less skeptical.

But after two weeks? It’s sort of like Boeing announcing two weeks after the first 737 Max crash that it was caused by a microburst or a UFO. Too quick and too convenient.
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Old 07-05-2021, 11:08   #66
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Re: Invisible Force Sinks Sub

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Not quite sure how to ask this question, but is there an academic discipline that would discuss such phenomena? Some here have dismissed the whole concept and perhaps that is legit. However, I’d be curious if there is any solid research into this. If it is BS produced by some guy covering for his military’s screw up, that is fine.
Hi Dave
I wouldn't quite say that people are dismissing the concept. I think that what people are saying is that they are skeptical that that is the explanation for this event.
I can't dismiss the concept of aliens having visited earth. But it would almost certainly be wrong for me to blame aliens for having stolen my car keys when I can't find them.
Les
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Old 07-05-2021, 11:42   #67
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Re: Invisible Force Sinks Sub

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Invisible underwater waves.. Hmmm. Don't think so.
Submarining is dangerous & unforgiving. Maybe the boat failed from age & lack of maintenance, or maybe someone on board just made a critical error. Hopefully lessons will be learned.
Either way, 53 sailors died, for which we offer our sympathy to their families. Looks like it was quick, at least.
Then in your opinion, what are tsunami waves? 😉
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Old 07-05-2021, 12:01   #68
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Re: Invisible Force Sinks Sub

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Then in your opinion, what are tsunami waves? 😉
A pretty well understood and studied phenomenon caused by shifts in the Earth's crust during earthquakes or more rarely landslides? If a submerged sub encounters a tsunami at sea they may very well not even notice it, same if they were surfaced. They are a very different animal from this supposed thing.
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Old 07-05-2021, 12:02   #69
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Re: Invisible Force Sinks Sub

Tsunami waves are neither "invisible" nor undetectable. In open water, they're seldom an issue. If there had been a tsunami, it would have been reported long before now. That’s about as likely as a UFO to have caused the sinking.
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Old 07-05-2021, 12:19   #70
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Re: Invisible Force Sinks Sub

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Hi Dave
I wouldn't quite say that people are dismissing the concept. I think that what people are saying is that they are skeptical that that is the explanation for this event.
I can't dismiss the concept of aliens having visited earth. But it would almost certainly be wrong for me to blame aliens for having stolen my car keys when I can't find them.
Les
Since on a smaller scale this phenomenon was the cause of the demise of several SCUBA divers I for one am not so sure that it could not exist on a larger scale under certain conditions and near seamounts having the right geometry.

It is certainly a higher probability by analogy with diver experiences than aliens landing on earth.
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Old 07-05-2021, 13:05   #71
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pirate Re: Invisible Force Sinks Sub

I think it was a Kraken.
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Old 07-05-2021, 15:40   #72
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Re: Invisible Force Sinks Sub

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Indonesian officials working to determine how a military submarine with 53 crewmembers sunk earlier this month during a training exercise said the vessel may have been hit by an internal solitary wave in the treacherous waters off Bali.

Australia’s ABC.net.au reported that such waves are invisible but have the strength to drag a submarine down to dangerous depths. The report said that there have been several theories, but evidence seems to point to the wave that would not be evident on the surface of the water.

The report said Indonesian naval officials consulted satellite images from the region and determined that these massive waves were in the area at the time of the sinking.

Rear Adm. Iwan Isnurwanto, the commander of the Indonesian Navy Command and Staff School, told the station that the wave may have "moved up from the bottom to the north, and there’s a trench between two mountains."

"There was nothing that they could do, no time to do anything... if the sub was brought down by such a wave. It likely angled [downward], causing all the crew members to roll down," Isnurwanto said, according to Nikkei Asia. "We have to do further investigation, but that is most likely what happened."

From https://www.foxnews.com/world/doomed...er-wave-report
They were on a torpedo launching exercise, the torpedo exploded in the barrel, too early, so the sub broke apart
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Old 07-05-2021, 17:35   #73
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Re: Invisible Force Sinks Sub

Cthulhu. Clearly.


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Old 07-05-2021, 17:58   #74
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Re: Invisible Force Sinks Sub

The Fox Entertainment source has me wondering how this story made it to publication. Crazy theory.
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Old 07-05-2021, 18:00   #75
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Re: Invisible Force Sinks Sub

Internal waves really are a thing, here's a readable article on them from WHOI. But I agree, maintenance or error are far more likely than one of these. Determining that it was caused by an internal wave IS possible from a satellite, they can leave telltale surface slicks, but still a long shot imho. https://www.whoi.edu/oceanus/feature...hin-the-waves/
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