Hurrican grounding - Advice?

[cptcptcpt]

pulling on mast should be done only to rock the boat, if there is enough water the wings will be horizontal and will help walk the boat thru the obstacles as it find a path of least resistance

if there is not enough water then getting a weighted line around the keel and a slackened line to the bow will help the wing slide over stuff rather than plowing or hooking

if you have a sand or mud it will go fast, i see pilings in the picture, so go slow

[pdbms]

Just from personal experience, I don't recommend the use of a halyard to accomplish mechanically assisted heal; the halyard will very quicky pull to the side of the sheave and bind up. Better to place a soft sling around the hounds and a block and tackle attached between the sling and the counterweight.

[puffcard]

You don't heel a wing keel to reduce draft. If close to getting off, you can rock a wing keel boat to break the suction. rock with people or turning the rudder back-n-forth with the motor in gear.
Need to lift or lighten the boat, get all the heavy gear, fuel and water off the boat. I worked with a salvage company in Norfolk for several years while in college (yea it took that long). We used air bags succesfully many times and they aren't expessive. Also used crane barges on a lot of boats from 20 to 75ft. He just needs to lift you a foot or two, hold you and pull back to deeper water.

If you have access to a mud pump, you could jet out a hole under the rudder and keel so you don't bounce off the bottom. On one job we had to jet mud out under the bottom of a 70ft trawler to installed a soft patch.

Just don't pull on mast.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Dwain.

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by cptcptcpt

there may be a lot of rope and chain and anchors on the bottom from the other boats that will be catching your wings, a grapple may be easy to use or a boat hook to find them before they foul everything up

Good point on underwater gear.

Having been aground so many many times (ahem most intentionally lol) - Please walk the shallow water first so you know exactly what is going on and where the deeper water actually is. I wear crocs for that work as they mostly stay on in the mud.

Question - do water depths in the gulf get affected by wind? I.e. Would a SE wind add an extra 6" or 1' to help our OP?

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by SecondBase

Good point on underwater gear.

Having been aground so many many times (ahem most intentionally lol) - Please walk the shallow water first so you know exactly what is going on and where the deeper water actually is. I wear crocs for that work as they mostly stay on in the mud.

Question - do water depths in the gulf get affected by wind? I.e. Would a SE wind add an extra 6" or 1' to help our OP?

Yes and no....extreme winds stack up or drain the water, however the prevailing winds don't do much for the tide(less than a foot).

[brownoarsman]

Could you make the wing keel work for you and drag her out with a loop around the wing?

No basis for making any suggestions, so please get the help of an expert. Just saw that it hadn't been suggested and was wondering about it myself.

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by brownoarsman

Could you make the wing keel work for you and drag her out with a loop around the wing?

No basis for making any suggestions, so please get the help of an expert. Just saw that it hadn't been suggested and was wondering about it myself.

That definitely colocates the CE with the center of resistance. It also removes keel-hull stress and removes dependency on Catalina cleats. To me what you suggest is a preferred approach but let's see what others have to say.

[brownoarsman]

Originally Posted by SecondBase

That definitely colocates the CE with the center of resistance. It also removes keel-hull stress and removes dependency on Catalina cleats. To me what you suggest is a preferred approach but let's see what others have to say.

That's what I was thinking as well. As well, protects the mast a little more, keeps the wing from acting as a plough behind the boat, etc.

May be a little dangerous getting the loop on, but the boat orientation looks to be like the keel is already pointing towards open water...

[Triumphant]

The longer you leave the boat there, the more likely it is that the boat will make itself a bigger/deeper hole to sit in if the bottom is soft

[SecondBase]

Here is an approximation of the keel form.

OP you know your boat. Can you confirm this picture looks pretty close to you and especially forward leaning angles on front and rear vertical surfaces?



OP everything we are tossing out here is to help you think about it. What you choose to do is ultimately up to you and your sole responsibility.

I'm thinking that the knot to use on a keel, what is this, a literal keel haul? The knot would be a round turn and two half hitches. I suspect that knot lands right at the upper portion of the keel. If you did several wraps of the round turn that might help spread force away from the keel-hull joint.

If the hull is stable in place I don't see much danger getting the knot on. Maybe a mask will help dressing the knot - no overlaps, as tight as you can get it.

Prior posters comments - beware of horsepower are well said. Need to carefully apply. If you can just float it off or kedge it off using the tide cycle I gave earlier and the wind comments from another poster that is preferred.

If you can not kedge then we're into the round turn and a careful, experienced captain driving a shrimper per Suijin's post.

The pole in the photo below represents your keel. I'm suggesting 4-5 wraps around the pole.

Again let's collect some more comments and insights from the group.




If you can get it floating in a keel hole where she sits you can start the round turn at the low end of the keel vertical plane with say a 30 foot tail on the knot. Then throw a wrap under and above the side blades and then another couple wrap around vertical and finish with your half hitches. This takes any stress completely away from the hull. If this is confusing, but also of interest, feel free to PM me your phone number and I can talk you through it better than I can write it.

I am only comfortable with this bigger, non-standard low wrap after you walk the path to deep water and confirm you are fully in sand and mud - no big rocks or obstructions on the way out.

[anacapaisland42]

If you pull it over by the halyards be sure o check your chainplates afterwards.
Don't ask me how I know
Bill

[anacapaisland42]

Is she close enough to shore to get a construction HD forklift to lift her out?
Bill

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

This is exactly what I meant when I suggested "be very careful of people with lots of horsepower."

Someone looking for a quick return on little or no effort.

I'm curious, how do you hold the boat at 45 degrees with a 'halyard and a dinghy full of water' while the shrimp boat is towing it out an unspecified distance? Extra long halyard? Do you feed it out yourself whilst remaining on the deck, canted at 45? Or somehow attach a winch of some sort to the sunken dinghy and feed it from there?

What about turning the boat around? Attaching the tow rope where exactly? Or do you suggest pulling her out stern first? Rudders are cheap, and fiberglass repair, especially around rudder shaft bearings and tubes, is easy and fun, so no worries there...

As for danger, tying 6 lines around four water-filled barrels, hooking up a pre-rigged rubber hose manifold and waiting a while certainly sounds way more dangerous than having a 1000-2000hp shrimp boat pulling on a towrope attached (likely somewhat sketchily) to a boat, canted over on its side by a rope holding the masthead, fixed to a sunken dinghy, with its keel and maybe its rudder stuck in the bottom of the bay...

The guy is looking for advice, for options to consider. None of us are there, know what the bottom material/contour is, how deep is rudder is, what his stern cleats are like, etc. etc. That up to him to evaluate and factor into his decision making. It's entirely possible that he can drag the boat off if the conditions are right. For anyone to maintain otherwise, they are assuming much more than any of us know. It's entirely possible that he could pull it off easily. Only a closer surveying of the actual situation would reveal whether that was prudent.

And you don't need to sink the dinghy ffs. A 11' RIB filled with water would likely heel that boat 45' and still be floating.

And what is it with people getting high and mighty on this board and salting their posts with sarcasm as a form of insult. Sheesh.

[Jetx]

Originally Posted by SecondBase

I'm thinking that the knot to use on a keel, what is this, a literal keel haul? The knot would be a round turn and two half hitches. I suspect that knot lands right at the upper portion of the keel. If you did several wraps of the round turn that might help spread force away from the keel-hull joint.

If the hull is stable in place I don't see much danger getting the knot on. Maybe a mask will help dressing the knot - no overlaps, as tight as you can get it.

Sounds like a good idea. Another alternative would be a webbing tow strap.. you don't need the extra strength, but it'll spread the load out, and is be less likely to slip up the keel. Ideally wrap two or three times, in a choker configuration, and it should stay put nicely.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MQ2O8QV