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Old 13-03-2020, 14:23   #76
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Re: How a Shipwrecked Crew Survived 10 Days Lost at Sea

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Originally Posted by becrux View Post
It boils down to statistics and math. When someone says “average” without specifying “statistical mean” or “arithmetic mean” [pronounced arithMETic mean] it can lead to confusion.

It is entirely possible that half the rescues with Epirb activation take less than 4.5 hours, and half take more - possibly much, much more. This would make 4.5 the statistical mean - also called the “median”. The arithmetic mean (what most of us call “average”) could easily be much higher. Say you had 4 rescues that happened in 4 hours and 1 that took 5 hours and three that took 4.5 days. The statistical mean (or median) is between 4 and 5 hours (half before and half after), but the arithmetic mean is 1.8 days (total time divided by number of rescues.)
So while the CG stats may be correct, they may also be a bit misleading. The quote above was not clear. And let’s also remember that they are tabulating Epirb distress calls. The particular episode discussed in this thread does not enter into the equation.

I keep watch and carry an Epirb... and a sextant.
I was not demeaning the US Coast Guard and hope it did not come across that way.. The 4.5 hrs. should have been qualified.
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Old 13-03-2020, 15:24   #77
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Re: How a Shipwrecked Crew Survived 10 Days Lost at Sea

The USCG (in recent years) responds to ~16000 SAR requests/year. Of those, ~100 are initiated as response to EPIRBs on recreational vessels. Of those, fully one-half are classified as "on land" or "inland waterways". Only 1 in 6 are > 20 miles from land, and 1 in 10 > 50 miles from land.

So, seems that it would be pretty easy to get a 4.5 hour mean/median/mode while leaving those of us who venture far offshore to expect much (much) longer response times.

(Curiously, need to dig into this more, in the '70s/'80s the USCG responded to ~70,000 SAR cases/year, there has been a steady decline since then - is this the commercial tow industry responding to the bulk of what used to be SAR cases?)
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Old 23-03-2020, 13:39   #78
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Re: How a Shipwrecked Crew Survived 10 Days Lost at Sea

i'm just happy for the rest of the crew that it was pete's banjo that survived the storm. could have been worse. could have been pete's bagpipes.....
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Old 31-03-2020, 19:31   #79
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Re: How a Shipwrecked Crew Survived 10 Days Lost at Sea

You all have pretty much taken this story apart, the only accurate parts of which appear to be losing the mast and getting rescued. No way they were rolled by a massive wave, their dodger is in way too good shape, plus he fails to mention they made a jury rig with, presumably, a spinnaker pole and small sail. Another weird aspect is that the CG was apparently searching for them, but they were hardly overdue. And even I as a solo sailor have two EPIRBS and a PLB.

Someone asked about conditions in the area. The best I can find is from Midway about 1.3k miles Westnorthwest. This is the archive of the wind conditions from the week from December 19 2019 from WindAlert. Max conditions were gusts to 30 knots. Unfortunately there is of course no wave height recording, and of it appears they were in fact west or even slightly westsouthwest of Hawaii, so conditions might have been much worse.
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Old 01-09-2020, 10:56   #80
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Re: How a Shipwrecked Crew Survived 10 Days Lost at Sea

For God's sake people, how can you "choose not to carry an EPIRB"? There is absolutely no reasonable excuse for "choosing not to carry an EPIRB" these days. They are cheap. They don't disturb the pleasure of sailing in any way. It is 21st century, we have EPIRBS, InReach, satellite phones, all kinds of waterproof radios, PLBs, freeze dried food, etc. We also have sextants, paper maps and other basic navigation tools. How can you not have any of these when offshore sailing across the biggest ocean in the world? Feeling "ashamed" because they didn't complete the voyage? What kind of mindset is it? Sailing in risky time to save the slip? Unsecured, flying batteries? It is a perfect example of bad risk management or even complete lack of it. Ignorance kills. They got lucky that smarter people found them.
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Old 01-09-2020, 12:13   #81
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Re: How a Shipwrecked Crew Survived 10 Days Lost at Sea

Three crew an no one was standing watch?
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Old 01-09-2020, 13:03   #82
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Re: How a Shipwrecked Crew Survived 10 Days Lost at Sea

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For God's sake people, how can you "choose not to carry an EPIRB"? There is absolutely no reasonable excuse for "choosing not to carry an EPIRB" these days. (...)

An EPIRB is not a navigation tool.
An EPIRB is not making the boat safer,
Countless sailors sailed before EPIRB, without EPIRB (notably Maghellanes, Columbus and Barnakiel).



Hence it is a choice like any other. People take decisions according to their risk-aversion profile. Note there are also individuals who have risk-seeking profile where others have risk aversion. Examples: Peter Smith, Peter Blake, Jarle Andhoy, Alex Thomson.


In fact, EPIRBs should be awarded only to experienced sailors, with proven record of making it thru at least 10.000 offshore miles as skippers of their own uninsured boats purchased with cash.


So, as you can see, there are reasons to have and to have not.

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Old 01-09-2020, 13:51   #83
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Re: How a Shipwrecked Crew Survived 10 Days Lost at Sea

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An EPIRB is not a navigation tool.
An EPIRB is not making the boat safer,
Countless sailors sailed before EPIRB, without EPIRB (notably Maghellanes, Columbus and Barnakiel).



Hence it is a choice like any other. People take decisions according to their risk-aversion profile. Note there are also individuals who have risk-seeking profile where others have risk aversion. Examples: Peter Smith, Peter Blake, Jarle Andhoy, Alex Thomson.


In fact, EPIRBs should be awarded only to experienced sailors, with proven record of making it thru at least 10.000 offshore miles as skippers of their own uninsured boats purchased with cash.


So, as you can see, there are reasons to have and to have not.

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An" EPIRB is a navigation tool " Pure BS. It's a save your ass tool.
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Old 01-09-2020, 14:00   #84
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Re: How a Shipwrecked Crew Survived 10 Days Lost at Sea

An EPIRB is not a navigation tool.
An EPIRB is not making the boat safer,
Countless sailors sailed before EPIRB, without EPIRB (notably Magellan, Columbus and Barnakiel).

Yes, and do not forget Franklin's lost expedition and Hudson's marooning by a mutinous crew; ditto Bligh. But with all due respect, this is not only BS in the current context but highly irresponsible to post something that is grossly misleading. This forum I hope is to provide a source of guidance to others, not misguidance!

Of course an EPIRB is an essential piece of gear on any cruising vessel. Soon it will be mandatory like an AIS is in some high traffic areas. Yesterday is history, circumstances have changed: we have Search and Rescue these days and satellite locating. All of this is available to the modern cruiser. Capability to access these services is the responsibility of any cruising skipper.
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Old 01-09-2020, 14:06   #85
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pirate Re: How a Shipwrecked Crew Survived 10 Days Lost at Sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by argonauta1 View Post
An EPIRB is not a navigation tool.
An EPIRB is not making the boat safer,
Countless sailors sailed before EPIRB, without EPIRB (notably Magellan, Columbus and Barnakiel).

Yes, and do not forget Franklin's lost expedition and Hudson's marooning by a mutinous crew; ditto Bligh. But with all due respect, this is not only BS in the current context but highly irresponsible to post something that is grossly misleading. This forum I hope is to provide a source of guidance to others, not misguidance!

Of course an EPIRB is an essential piece of gear on any cruising vessel. Soon it will be mandatory like an AIS is in some high traffic areas. Yesterday is history, circumstances have changed: we have Search and Rescue these days and satellite locating. All of this is available to the modern cruiser. Capability to access these services is the responsibility of any cruising skipper.
Yet still a personal choice on recreational craft.. be it an EPIRB or AIS..
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Old 01-09-2020, 14:10   #86
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Re: How a Shipwrecked Crew Survived 10 Days Lost at Sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by argonauta1 View Post
An EPIRB is not a navigation tool.
An EPIRB is not making the boat safer,
Countless sailors sailed before EPIRB, without EPIRB (notably Magellan, Columbus and Barnakiel).

Yes, and do not forget Franklin's lost expedition and Hudson's marooning by a mutinous crew; ditto Bligh. But with all due respect, this is not only BS in the current context but highly irresponsible to post something that is grossly misleading. This forum I hope is to provide a source of guidance to others, not misguidance!

Of course an EPIRB is an essential piece of gear on any cruising vessel. Soon it will be mandatory like an AIS is in some high traffic areas. Yesterday is history, circumstances have changed: we have Search and Rescue these days and satellite locating. All of this is available to the modern cruiser. Capability to access these services is the responsibility of any cruising skipper.

I think my crew and I would rather perish at sea without an EPIRB than have some nanny do-good minding my business for me.
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Old 01-09-2020, 14:45   #87
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Re: How a Shipwrecked Crew Survived 10 Days Lost at Sea

People that don't like EPIRBs, remind me of an old quote.
"There are no atheists in fox holes".
It might be something from WWI.
This shipwreck story has been out for a while, but I'll go down and check the straps on my batteries again tomorrow and test my EPIRB.��⛵️
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Old 01-09-2020, 16:35   #88
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Re: How a Shipwrecked Crew Survived 10 Days Lost at Sea

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An" EPIRB is a navigation tool " Pure BS. It's a save your ass tool.

Hey Boss,


Slow down and look at my text. I said "... is no ...", which you quote as "...is...". Which puzzles me as for what you mean.


The other part I 100% agree. EPIRB is a save my (----) device.


Most have it. Most have insurance, lawyers, two homes and three cars too. Others do not.


My take on it anyways.


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Old 01-09-2020, 16:39   #89
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Re: How a Shipwrecked Crew Survived 10 Days Lost at Sea

I think it is fine and makes sense to have an EPIRB. But I will never bash a person who does not.


I could though, discourage any sailor who intends to go to sea in a boat that is not well prepared for the sea.



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Old 02-09-2020, 13:00   #90
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Re: How a Shipwrecked Crew Survived 10 Days Lost at Sea

I also ride motorcycles. Some people choose not to wear helmet. I understand, riding without a helmet may be more pleasurable and for some it is worth the risk. Also, there is no crew. But what do you gain by not having an EPIRB in the middle of Pacific? A few hundred bucks? I just don't get the logic.
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