Hackzall for the Rig Ditch Kit

[Journeyman]

I used my Milwaukee Hackzall yesterday on a tricky project. It’s been a while but I am again reminded what a fantastic tool this is for a boat. I keep it in my rig ditch kit. But have never tried to cut rod rigging with it. I wonder if anyone has. Because it is one-handed and compact it seems like an ideal tool for cutting a rig away if you were unable to knock out the clevis pins. And someone pointed out to me that the place to cut would probably be the softer bronze turnbuckles. Has anyone actually done this? Or has any anecdotal information on how well it might perform cutting through Nitronic rod or bronze turnbuckles. Or even thru a mast or boom section?
Thank you,
Eddie, Valiant Esprit 37

[JPA Cate]

When we were dismasted, it was night, and the seas were still high, so it would have been pretty easy to fill the tool with salt water, which might cause you considerable discomfort.

In our case, it was a single spreader rig, and somehow, the clevis pin came out on the starboard side after we hove to--it was rolling back and forth between the chainplate and the toe rail. We had chosen to heave to, because the wind was forecast to diminish, and it would have made the sail into Brisbane more comfortable. We had supper, I went off watch to have a snooze, then with a loud bang, the keel stepped mast broke about 8" above deck level, and so, the whole rig went over the port side, squashing the lifelines, and smashing the bow pulpit. The main and staysail sheets were holding it all in place, 2 yr. old furler and sail, mast with 5 winches, radar, tricolor and antennas. The mast lay against the hull, squeaking loudly against it as the boat rose and sank with the swell.

Jim and I (with the flashlight) went around and pulled the rest of the pins, then we cut the sheet to let it all go. There really was no way to rescue it, for just 2 of us; it took 3 men to carry it. The guys at the yacht club said we should have, but our decision was that we at the moment had an intact hull, delaying to try to deploy enough flotation in the middle of the night around it to keep it afloat, and tow it 70+ miles was just not on.

Then we waited 10 minutes for assurance that it had all sunk far away, checked for lines overboard, then started the engine and motored towards harbor. The motion of the boat was extreme. I had to hold the kettle over the burner to make our morning cuppas, and toasted our toast on a long fork, similarly held over the burner.

One might have thought the weather gods had had enough fun with us, but not so. The head plugged up, and somehow you-know-what got sprayed all over. It was bucket time for us! We notified Customs we were returning in distress, and some of our friends met and escorted us in as the next day's dusk fell. Our only working light was the stern light. One of those friends is on his death bed as I write, and I want to tell him thank you all over again, for having us to his house that night, and giving us baths, a hot supper and a bed.

Ann

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Journeyman

I used my Milwaukee Hackzall yesterday on a tricky project. It’s been a while but I am again reminded what a fantastic tool this is for a boat. I keep it in my rig ditch kit. But have never tried to cut rod rigging with it. I wonder if anyone has. Because it is one-handed and compact it seems like an ideal tool for cutting a rig away if you were unable to knock out the clevis pins. And someone pointed out to me that the place to cut would probably be the softer bronze turnbuckles. Has anyone actually done this? Or has any anecdotal information on how well it might perform cutting through Nitronic rod or bronze turnbuckles. Or even thru a mast or boom section?
Thank you,
Eddie, Valiant Esprit 37

If it were me, I would pack a cheap cordless right angle grinder with a 1/16" cutting blade and charge it every few months. Easier to handle than cable cutters and more efficient than a sawzall.

[thesaltytar]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

When we were dismasted, it was night, and the seas were still high ....... Jim and I (with the flashlight) went around and pulled the rest of the pins, then we cut the sheet to let it all go.

Ann

Ann, that's so impressive!

I have often wondered what a dismasting would be like to experience. I'm surprised the mast was shorn off so close to the deck (maybe a false sense of security with my keel stepped rig?). I'm also impressed that the solution was to pull the pins, which I have never considered once.

Always I thought cable cutters or an angle grinder with a cutting disc, as was suggested. I have actually had the displeasure of using such a tool, corded not cordless, while taking breaking waves. It turns out while wearing rubber gloves there is a passing moment of electric shock but you can usually shake the tool out and get back to it again as long as the breaker doesn't trip, which it didn't for me. The motor does a good job drying itself out. Just rinse it out with fresh water afterward. But I never thought of pulling the pins.

If I can ask... What was the letting go experience like? Anything I should be aware of if I'm in a similar situation? Was there hazard posed by the remaining stays and shrouds as they became alternately taut and slack? Hoping I never need to use the info.

....and bless the people that offer us warm showers and beds!

[JPA Cate]

Hello, Saltytar, Yes, bless all folks who are kind to us!

First, let me say this is getting way astray from using a hackzall to cut rigging, and my concern there is that often dismastings occur offshore, in very rambunctious water, so that handling a large heavy power tool and using it safely -- well plain hand tools probably safer.

The letting go? Well, it let itself go, in the sense that what we found on deck : the stub of the mast, and the clevis pin rolling on deck between the now naked chain plate with no remnants of a split pin (cotter pin), were all in agreement. The upside down mast was in the water, held mainly by the mainsheet and the staysail sheet. All the rest of the wires and furler were over the side. Since the lines held the stress, removing the clevis pins was easy 'cause they were unloaded, and if one hadn't been upset, one might have saved the turnbuckles that were on deck.

What you should be aware of: Be careful. It may be an emotional time for you, when you want clarity and logic. Don't leap up without taking time to think the particular situation through. Try to ascertain if there's something you can reasonably save, and what those items are. (In our case, it took three men to carry the mast in a boat yard. Without any way to lift it, the two of us would not have been able to raise it to the deck, plus, it was bearing on the hull making this squeaky sound that sounded like sawing, so Jim decided right away it would have to go. Also it was pitch black and overcast, and masts have all these sticky-out protuberances to work around, like spreaders, so field stripping it to try and get it back, or the furler with the sail, would have involved a lot of in the water time in daylight. And again, in our case, our dodger had been damaged in the knockdown a day or so before.)

But many dismastings are only partial, and one has the top broken part flailing around till something work hardens and it falls down. People save the broken bits where possible, as potentially useful for a jury rig, or as part of recovery, but sometimes just not practical.

When ours went, we lost the spinnaker pole stored up the mast, as well, one reason to store them on deck. But we like the ease of poling out the headsail, and still carry the pole up the mast. Lots of compromises with boats.

What was it like? We both hit the switch for the deck lights, which, being under water at the time, of course didn't work. I think this was an indication we were in emergency mode, not thinking. However, Jim had been dismasted previously, and was probably more damage control oriented than freaked--It was I who was freaked out. We were very stealthy with our movements, but the motion, with the sails damping it in the swells, wasn't bad, it was not jerky, but smooth. For me, I had adrenalin shakes from the KA-BANG that woke me--probably the lower popping out, then the mast rupturing. We went on the windward (starboard) side at first, and worked our way around. The port side lifelines were squashed to deck level, the stanchions bent. Like I said, we moved with great care...Then came and sat in the cockpit, hugging each other for about 10-15 min, before one last line check, before we started the engine. The motion with it all cut away was vile, extremely jerky. I had to hold the bread over the burner on a cooking fork, to make toast later that morning; same deal with the kettle, had to hold it down for morning cuppas. Having a mast up there really does damp rolling.

It was a long day, and the poor boat looked so sadly squashed up, I felt very distressed for her. I actually went and got counseling for PTSD. That really helped. Jim accomplished his healing through the re-masting of the boat, through work. Of course I worked with him, too, but my healing came differently.

If you need to know more, maybe start another thread, so that our old adventure doesn't get in the way of the question about using the Hackzall. Thanks.

Ann

[thesaltytar]

Originally Posted by Journeyman

I used my Milwaukee Hackzall yesterday on a tricky project. It’s been a while but I am again reminded what a fantastic tool this is for a boat. I keep it in my rig ditch kit. But have never tried to cut rod rigging with it. I wonder if anyone has. Because it is one-handed and compact it seems like an ideal tool for cutting a rig away if you were unable to knock out the clevis pins. And someone pointed out to me that the place to cut would probably be the softer bronze turnbuckles. Has anyone actually done this? Or has any anecdotal information on how well it might perform cutting through Nitronic rod or bronze turnbuckles. Or even thru a mast or boom section?
Thank you,
Eddie, Valiant Esprit 37

Hello Eddie, I'm sorry about not responding to you directly, that was rude of me. Upon reflection I think it is a great idea to have this item in your bag.

I have not used a hackzall but have a fair amount of experience with a sawzall also by Milwaukee. I like their cordless tools very much and have had the experience of cutting away a bowsprit on an old schooner. It was about 9" in diameter and made of yellow pine; the end of the sprit was rotten (at the cranse iron, not uncommon) but where I made my cuts was solid. A long 14 TPI blade made short work of the matter.

I would say the sawzall design is probably superior for cutting the widest range of items when compared to an angle grinder, so if you don't know what you're cutting but need it destroyed I agree with your choice. I am curious what your impressions are with the hackzall but imagine it must be up to task and not too unlike a sawzall.

I favor the Diablo "torch" metal blades, love how you can bend them while cutting to get hard to reach areas, and would note that when cutting a lot of metal you can rock the saw back and forth a bit to heat the blade up evenly (holding it in one spot will overheat one portion of the blade then the teeth dull). I have cut through solid bronze stock and find cutting with a reciprocating blade to work better than an angle grinder disc on yellow metal. I think cutting through the bronze turnbuckles is a good idea, especially if you can land the blade in the flanks between the teeth of the threaded rod portion where the blade can get a good bite without the blade sliding up and down the stainless rod.

I am very comfortable with both tools but if you're cutting a lot you will likely need multiple blades or discs - angle grinder discs are fragile, break easy if the tool is placed down or leaned against, store poorly (such as in a go-bag), and can cause injury when they explode. Changing discs requires swapping the arbor and this is a small item that can be easily lost in a very intense scenario (I always hand tighten so don't use a wrench, but if you are inclined to use a wrench, there's another tool). I can cut a lot of steel much more quickly with an angle grinder but in an emergency for the above reasons I would vote for a sawzall type tool.

As for the water element of the tool getting splashed? I think it will be fine for its intended purpose.

How many stays do you have? Can you make all those cuts without recharging?

[thesaltytar]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Hello, Saltytar, Yes, bless all folks who are kind to us!

First, let me say this is getting way astray from using a hackzall to cut rigging

.....

It was a long day, and the poor boat looked so sadly squashed up, I felt very distressed for her. I actually went and got counseling for PTSD. That really helped. Jim accomplished his healing through the re-masting of the boat, through work. Of course I worked with him, too, but my healing came differently.

If you need to know more, maybe start another thread, so that our old adventure doesn't get in the way of the question about using the Hackzall. Thanks.

Ann

You are very right about thread drift, and you make a sound suggestion. We can open up the interesting topic of dismasting more generally speaking without inadvertent hijacking.

I'm glad that you have both had a chance to heal from this event. I have great respect for the capabilities and emotional resilience of people who overcome harrowing situations, and also the emotional costs, all finances aside!

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by thesaltytar

I have often wondered what a dismasting would be like to experience. I'm surprised the mast was shorn off so close to the deck (maybe a false sense of security with my keel stepped rig?). I'm also impressed that the solution was to pull the pins, which I have never considered once.

In a situation like Ann described where there is no longer sufficient rigging attached and holding the mast up, I'd expect a deck stepped mast to just fall over in some way or another. With a keel stepped mast, it'll likely stay up until the mast experiences enough force to break.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

In a situation like Ann described where there is no longer sufficient rigging attached and holding the mast up, I'd expect a deck stepped mast to just fall over in some way or another. With a keel stepped mast, it'll likely stay up until the mast experiences enough force to break.

Jim here...

In our case we were hove to in improving conditions after a major storm. We had been sailing on port tack for some while, then hove to on starboard, with a double reefed main and staysail. Wind now down to around 30 kts, decreasing seas of a couple of meters, occasionally larger with breaking tops. After settling down in these conditions the boat was fore reaching at a knot or so, rolling in the seaway but remaining hove to. After an hour or so there was a loud double bang and we rushed on deck to find the mast (a keel stepped thing of telephone pole proportions) broken off just above the deck and lying top down in the water to port. The jagged broken end was riding on the tumblehome of the hull, digging into the gel coat and making an unpleasant "sawing" noise. The weight was mostly absorbed by the main and stay sail sheets. All the rigging was intact save the starboard (single) lower which was not in sight, but there was a clevis pin rolling about on deck near the chainplate. Not a pretty sight.

With the sail plan in use the mast was heavily loaded near the spreaders (from the inner forestay and the head of the reefed main). I suspect that when the windward lower came loose (first loud bang) it simply folded to leeward until it failed just above the partners (second loud bang), and then the lot went over the side.

As Ann said upthread, we were able to remove the clevis pins from all the remaining stays and shrouds, leaving the mast hanging from the dacron sheets. From memory (this was in 1996) this process took around 30-45 minutes, for the boat had a fair amount of motion and it was pitch black. The hardest part was dealing with the forestay and furler, for the drum made access difficult and the stiffness of the foils loaded the clevis pin and made it hard to knock out. When all were cast off we cut the heavily loaded sheets and everything quickly sank away: mast, boom, three sails, five winches, radar, nav lights, wind instrument and VHF antenna, plus the rigging and furler. Not an economical move, that!

We were some 75 miles SE of cape Moreton (Queensland coast) and had plenty of fuel, which was good, because there was bugger all left on board from which to build a jury rig. Waited a while for everything to clear, then manually rotated the propshaft to be sure it was not fouled, started up the engine and set off once again... pretty well exhausted and not too happy.

Next morning I rigged a HF antenna from a random length of household wire draped over the dodger and up the foredeck. Checked in to our morning ham net with our news... which lead to folks insisting that we needed rescuing. We were determined to get in on our own (for ego reasons) and managed to dissuade them to the point where they met us inside Moreton Bay and escorted us into the marina at Manly... and that was just as well, because we had no nav lights left save the stern light, and having a well lit escort was reassuring to us.

So, that's what it was like in our case. Obviously there is room for wildly different experiences... but I can't recommend any of them!

Jim