Damage to boats, marina in downtown Gulfport Florida after Hurricane

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Rohan

That is true but I plan to move to Florida in the next couple years!

then what you need to do is look up the Potomac of Florida. ie: caloosahatchee, st. john’s, etc

I have hidden out from hurricane Ian in the Caloosahatchee and some other hurricane in the St. John’s. In both cases, the eye of the hurricane went right over. In the Caloosahatchee version, 120 mile an hour sustained winds at my boat reported by the local weather station

in the St. John’s version, the small creek I was in was covered with trees. growing on each side, they nearly touched in the middle of the creek. I might be exaggerating a little bit. It seemed like that. I was very concerned that the trees might fall on my boat. Luckily, they held up.

but… no meaningful storm surge, no waves, just wind

[Lee Jerry]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Only Ships go out to sea to avoid a hurricane, not privately owned small sailboats under say 120’ or so.

Originally Posted by Lee Jerry

You have a bizarre definition of "small sailboat." I would think that's somewhere in the lower double-digit range. If you have a 100' boat (or 80' or 60') and leave it in the path of a hurricane, well...maybe you just have more money than brains. But that doesn't determine which is "best" for the boat.

Also, if you have a ~100 ft'er and she has to weather a named storm in harbor, and assuming she survives, it's time to find yourself a new captain.

[Shanachie]

Originally Posted by Lee Jerry

You're not going out INTO the storm (I agree that would be stupid); you're going out BEFORE the storm in order to avoid it (or at least the worst of it).

You can find hurricane forecasts here: National Hurricane Center.

There is no effective way to run from a hurricane once it turns north and starts heading up along the Florida coast.


A change of course of a couple of degrees could mean 100 miles difference in landfall. Before Ian, someone in my marina went to a Fort Myers Beach boatyard to avoid the storm ...


With climate change, storms are also becoming more sprawling. Helene's eye was more than 100 miles from Tampa Bay, yet it wreaked major havoc.



The dock behind my townhouse looks like a roller coaster after being lifted by the storm surge. Two sailboats are on the bottom. A random powerboat from who knows where is sitting on the dock.


I'm glad I decided to open my checkbook and move my boat from a free dock to a protected one.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Lee Jerry

You have a bizarre definition of "small sailboat." I would think that's somewhere in the lower double-digit range. If you have a 100' boat (or 80' or 60') and leave it in the path of a hurricane, well...maybe you just have more money than brains. But that doesn't determine which is "best" for the boat.




You're not going out INTO the storm (I agree that would be stupid); you're going out BEFORE the storm in order to avoid it (or at least the worst of it).

You can find hurricane forecasts here: National Hurricane Center.

The 100' thing was so everyone here considering sailing out before a hurricane arrives on their small sailboat based on some weather forecast would understand it's a bad idea.

If the storm is 500 plus miles wide, when do you leave? 4 to 5 days ahead of the storm which could turn. The storm bands reach way out. Which way do you go?

As I said, I experienced maybe 8 hurricanes while in Pensacola, FL from 1995 - 2009.

You learn a lot going through those.

They are nothing to play around with especially a big Cat 3/4.

It's easy to make all sorts of great escape plans while sitting at your keyboard with a cold beer or warm cup of coffee after a good night's sleep.

Also, those of us that have been through a few of these recognize how the low pressure can make you tired even before it arrives.

Also, after the storm passes, where to you plan to go with your boat? If your area did get hit, there may be no place for your boat left. That is when you are allowed to return.

With Cat 3/4 Ivan in 2004, all the docks were heavily damaged or destroyed totally. Also, no boats were allowed in the waters due to all the debris in the water.

There were lots of tornadoes within Hurricane Ivan as well.

[EmeraldCoastSailor]

My marina had fixed docks and was nearly in Michael's bullseye; so I left. Mostt who moved into much larger slips at the marina did fairly well. Those who stayed in their regular slips had a higher mortality; most didn't make it. The bigger slips allowed for more lines, shock absorption, and surge tolerance. Think 30' sailboat in a 70' yacht's slip. I didn't consider this option as I did my storm prep so I left marina.

Along with many other boats, I moved to a bayou off the bay that was closer to eye (less than 10 miles) but it was my best preplanned option; it offered good holding and wave protection. I used a tandem anchor arrangement and was one of 3 boats that survived at anchor. I dragged about 200' but I allowed for that in my positioning; I favored north east side of bayou. My Delta dove about 14' in the muck and eventually held on to something. I was able to recover the tandem anchor but not the primary. I had some toe rail damage which might have been a passing boat but could have also been flying tree limbs. Hundreds of boats were strewn everywhere on land.

I would not want to anchor in the bay and certainly would not go into Gulf unless I was running away from a storm. If storm surge is going to be moderate or worse, and you are not in a floating dock marina, then I'd leave. My plan to use either a big storm anchor and/or a tandem anchor arrangement with at least 3 nylon connections to the boat and take my chances in a spot that is as protected as possible in my area.

[GordMay]

Hurricane HELENE Advisory Archive
➥ https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2024/HELENE.shtml?

Note Forecast: ERRORS FOR TRACK HAVE AVERAGED NEAR 125 NM
ON DAY 4, AND 175 NM ON DAY 5.
AND FOR INTENSITY NEAR 15 KT EACH DAY.

[barnakiel]

The track was very precise this time. There was ample time to sail or power the boat to another location. Thinking "this will not happen to me" is what caused the damage, not the winds.


b.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by EmeraldCoastSailor

My marina had fixed docks and was nearly in Michael's bullseye; so I left. Mostt who moved into much larger slips at the marina did fairly well. Those who stayed in their regular slips had a higher mortality; most didn't make it. The bigger slips allowed for more lines, shock absorption, and surge tolerance. Think 30' sailboat in a 70' yacht's slip. I didn't consider this option as I did my storm prep so I left marina.

Along with many other boats, I moved to a bayou off the bay that was closer to eye (less than 10 miles) but it was my best preplanned option; it offered good holding and wave protection. I used a tandem anchor arrangement and was one of 3 boats that survived at anchor. I dragged about 200' but I allowed for that in my positioning; I favored north east side of bayou. My Delta dove about 14' in the muck and eventually held on to something. I was able to recover the tandem anchor but not the primary. I had some toe rail damage which might have been a passing boat but could have also been flying tree limbs. Hundreds of boats were strewn everywhere on land.

I would not want to anchor in the bay and certainly would not go into Gulf unless I was running away from a storm. If storm surge is going to be moderate or worse, and you are not in a floating dock marina, then I'd leave. My plan to use either a big storm anchor and/or a tandem anchor arrangement with at least 3 nylon connections to the boat and take my chances in a spot that is as protected as possible in my area.

What?

The Navy Base in Pensacola had a Floating Dock.

It was lifted over it's anchoring pilings during Hurricane Ivan's surge in 2004 leaving most of the boats behind.

That floating dock and the boats still attached then proceeded to be blown through all the anchored boats in one of the local hurricane holes destroying all those but one.

[Shanachie]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

The track was very precise this time. There was ample time to sail or power the boat to another location. Thinking "this will not happen to me" is what caused the damage, not the winds.

b.

Ah, the Monday morning quarterback.



This is just not true. You must not be familiar with the Gulf Coast of Florida. Take a look at a map of Florida and the size of Helene.



Significant damage stretched hundreds of miles from Sarasota to the Big Bend area. There was not "ample time" to do anything significant in terms of fleeing. And there was nowhere safe to go, anyway.



Winds did not cause most of the damage. The large storm surge did. We had a storm surge measuring as much as 8 feet in Tampa Bay that came in quickly and literally swept boats off their anchors in bays.



There is no place containing water that is protected from a major storm surge. All you can do is get into a protected marina or dock, use a lot of lines and hope for the best.


I found my fixed slip to be effective. Several lines broke, but I had 11 in place with various lengths. The water completely covered the electrical stands on the docks.



The surge was so high in other places that some floating docks came off their pilings. Some of them in Gulfport, Fl., ended up on the main street in downtown.

[Chotu]

maybe this pic will help people understand.

this is the path where the winds were strong enough to knock out all of the lights.

storm surge and huge waves go way beyond the central core

[sandy stone]

Originally Posted by Lee Jerry

how many boats were lost at sea from Hurricane Helene versus how many that were lost in other methods? I expext the former is somewhere between 0 and a handful whereas the latter is definately in the hundreds and possible the thousands.

The only problem is that if your boat happens to be one that's lost at sea, you're on the boat! The only sensible thing is to prepare the boat as best you can and get the heck out. Anybody who thinks otherwise must have never been through a hurricane - you can't imagine how violent they really are.

I'm pretty sure I've seen video of one boat that did try to ride out the storm at sea, and incredibly the coast guard was able to rescue the skipper and his dog.

And to the OP - Chotu describes the best way to protect the boat, if you have a suitable spot available. My boat survived hurricane Katrina exactly that way.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Ah, the Monday morning quarterback.



This is just not true. You must not be familiar with the Gulf Coast of Florida. Take a look at a map of Florida and the size of Helene.



Significant damage stretched hundreds of miles from Sarasota to the Big Bend area. There was not "ample time" to do anything significant in terms of fleeing. And there was nowhere safe to go, anyway.



Winds did not cause most of the damage. The large storm surge did. We had a storm surge measuring as much as 8 feet in Tampa Bay that came in quickly and literally swept boats off their anchors in bays.



There is no place containing water that is protected from a major storm surge. All you can do is get into a protected marina or dock, use a lot of lines and hope for the best.


I found my fixed slip to be effective. Several lines broke, but I had 11 in place with various lengths. The water completely covered the electrical stands on the docks.



The surge was so high in other places that some floating docks came off their pilings. Some of them in Gulfport, Fl., ended up on the main street in downtown.

Ok.


What I am saying as I watched its landfall it was forecast very accurately and made known about 3 days in advance.


3x100 = 200-300 miles to move, easily.


I understand you are saying there are no spots 250 miles from the landfall point that did not get affected in similar way.


You are correct I do not know Gulf Coast well, never been there. But hope to visit one day. They say it is very lovely out there.


It is a big size for a tropical storm to be 500 miles across, they tend to be 50-150 miles diameter offshore. I never thought of this but maybe they get 'flattened' to a larger diameter as they cross the sea-land barrier.



Regards,
b.

[cofc]

Originally Posted by Lee Jerry

Here's a question (which I don't know the answer): how many boats were lost at sea from Hurricane Helene versus how many that were lost in other methods? I expext the former is somewhere between 0 and a handful whereas the latter is definately in the hundreds and possible the thousands.

This is the dumbest question that just happens to follow the dumbest advice. The number of boats lost at sea from Helene was near zero because there were near zero boats out to sea in the hurricane. There were also zero boats lost on the moon from Helene, should we go there during the a hurricane? There were also zero people killed from eating landmines covered in mustard and sauerkraut last year, do you suggest that is a good practice?

Whether or not a boat is safest at sea during a hurricane is of no consequence because a person would need to be on it. And it is absolutely the worst place a person could be during the hurricane.

[Shanachie]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Ok.


What I am saying as I watched its landfall it was forecast very accurately and made known about 3 days in advance.


3x100 = 200-300 miles to move, easily.

There are a couple of problems with your logic.


One is that tropical storms and hurricanes are not rare. We might get two or three a year that pose a potential threat. So you would do a 600-mile trip each time?


Also, 50 miles a day might be a better figure than 100, especially if you are singlehanding. That's very likely, considering other people have jobs and also have to prepare their homes.


In addition, just because one forecast is accurate does not mean that all will be. You would need a wonderful crystal ball to be able to separate the good from the bad predictions.


Further up in the thread, I talked about someone in my marina who traveled 140 miles to Fort Myers Beach to avoid Ian, which was predicted to hit Tampa Bay at one point, then saw his boat sustain serious damage in a boatyard.


Life's decisions seem much simpler when you're not actually confronting the situations.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

There are a couple of problems with your logic.


One is that tropical storms and hurricanes are not rare. We might get two or three a year that pose a potential threat. So you would do a 600-mile trip each time?


Also, 50 miles a day might be a better figure than 100, especially if you are singlehanding. That's very likely, considering other people have jobs and also have to prepare their homes.


In addition, just because one forecast is accurate does not mean that all will be. You would need a wonderful crystal ball to be able to separate the good from the bad predictions.


Further up in the thread, I talked about someone in my marina who traveled 140 miles to Fort Myers Beach to avoid Ian, which was predicted to hit Tampa Bay at one point, then saw his boat sustain serious damage in a boatyard.


Life's decisions seem much simpler when you're not actually confronting the situations.

You must be right.


I, personally, would make the trip. But my situation is not typical. I live in my boat and that's my only home now, so I would. And I have no issues covering sailing 100 miles a day, for I do not sail alone.


Quite a different mindset from someone who has a boat at the dock, a house to take care of, and a job that enslaves us to the place and time as found fit by our employer.


Then again, with storms so frequent and their impact so obvious, I do not quite get why people have boats on that coast. My heart would break every time I lost one. Insured or not. It is just the way I was brought up. We never bought boats like 'expendable' in my family. You know Eastern European complexes.


b.