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Old 24-03-2019, 06:52   #16
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Re: Cruise ship Viking Sky sends out a mayday call,

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2 coastal pilots in the bridge, they described the situation while drifting towards the rocks as tense...

Ya think?
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Old 24-03-2019, 06:53   #17
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Cruise ship Viking Sky sends out a mayday call,

So, other than fuel, what could bring down 3 out of 4 apparently almost new, but well run in engines? Ship built 2 yrs ago. Any bugs should have been well shaken out by now, but motors still new enough to be at their best.
Software?
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Old 24-03-2019, 06:54   #18
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Re: Cruise ship Viking Sky sends out a mayday call,

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Does it seem to you that a cruise ship would be off the coast of Norway in March? Seems like asking for trouble.
Cruises depart almost every day year round covering the entire coastline all the way up to Kirkenes. Hurtigruta, one operator, has been operating as combined mail, cargo and cruise ship along the coast for more than a century.
You can watch the North bound cruise "minute by minute" here (all 134 hours of it):
https://tv.nrk.no/serie/hurtigruten-minutt-for-minutt
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Old 24-03-2019, 07:49   #19
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Re: Cruise ship Viking Sky sends out a mayday call,

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
So, other than fuel, what could bring down 3 out of 4 apparently almost new, but well run in engines? Ship built 2 yrs ago. Any bugs should have been well shaken out by now, but motors still new enough to be at their best.
Software?
That was my thought, but I'd suspect as you said, any bugs would have been worked out even in the software side
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Old 24-03-2019, 08:09   #20
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Re: Cruise ship Viking Sky sends out a mayday call,

Nearly there!



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Old 24-03-2019, 08:19   #21
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Re: Cruise ship Viking Sky sends out a mayday call,

Good news. Looked very dicey for awhile there:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47685595
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Old 24-03-2019, 08:24   #22
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Re: Cruise ship Viking Sky sends out a mayday call,

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Good news. Looked very dicey for awhile there:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47685595
Bet they're all glad to get in!



Looked very dodgy for a little while..



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Old 24-03-2019, 08:32   #23
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Re: Cruise ship Viking Sky sends out a mayday call,

a number of large commercial vessels are having fuel difficulty with the new Ultra low surfer fuels required, particularly within the coasts when they change over from heavy bunkers. Quite often blends are developed on a custom or engine type- and if not exact engines shut down or misbehave. Once the shut down begins- tanks might be changed and the lines must be purged and everything bled till fuel is correct.
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Old 24-03-2019, 08:45   #24
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Re: Cruise ship Viking Sky sends out a mayday call,

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a number of large commercial vessels are having fuel difficulty with the new Ultra low surfer fuels required, particularly within the coasts when they change over from heavy bunkers. Quite often blends are developed on a custom or engine type- and if not exact engines shut down or misbehave. Once the shut down begins- tanks might be changed and the lines must be purged and everything bled till fuel is correct.
Thank you for the explanation
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Old 24-03-2019, 09:03   #25
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Re: Cruise ship Viking Sky sends out a mayday call,

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
So, other than fuel, what could bring down 3 out of 4 apparently almost new, but well run in engines? Ship built 2 yrs ago. Any bugs should have been well shaken out by now, but motors still new enough to be at their best.
Software?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chowdan View Post
That was my thought, but I'd suspect as you said, any bugs would have been worked out even in the software side
Does this remind us of anything - like, perhaps the Boeing 737 MAX?
The new 737 series performed its first flight on January 29, 2016, and gained FAA certification on March 8, 2017. The first delivery was a MAX 8 on May 6, 2017, to Malindo Air, which placed the aircraft into service on May 22, 2017. The 737 MAX is based on earlier 737 designs. It is re-engined with more efficient CFM International LEAP-1B engines, aerodynamic improvements (including distinctive split-tip winglets), and airframe modifications.
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Old 24-03-2019, 09:18   #26
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Re: Cruise ship Viking Sky sends out a mayday call,

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Does this remind us of anything - like, perhaps the Boeing 737 MAX?

No, because what agency certified cruise ship design? Are there many, many cruise ships, all exactly identical to each other?

FAA is a bureaucracy, as such itís very heavily staffed with Administrators, very heavily. But few Engineers. Iíve certified several small airplanes, in theory you can have the FAA certify an airplane, in reality that takes years, if itís ever done, so what is done is Engineers that have their FAA DER are hired to certify designs and flight tests.
DER is designated engineering representative, that operate under FAA oversight. Unfortunately the overseer, often is not at all capable of the job, they were hired for reasons other than job proficiency.
Larger manufacturers self certify with FAA oversight, in theory, in reality the overseers have no real idea of what they are doing, they quote FARís and that is about the extent of it.

Then politics gets involved, this Senator or that Representative applies pressure, cause I want this aircraft approved by this date, my constituency needs it done.

The case of that that I am very familiar with was the Gulfstream G650.
Atlanta ACO was afraid after that one for a long time.
ACO is aircraft certification office.

Unfortunately the FAA has fallen victim of being a Government agency, as Iím sure NASA has, so therefore it has other agendas that must be met, that out prioritize the purpose of the agency.
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Old 24-03-2019, 09:29   #27
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Re: Cruise ship Viking Sky sends out a mayday call,

Ship built 2 yrs ago. Any bugs should have been well shaken out by now, but motors still new enough to be at their best. And any bugs would have been worked out even in the software side.
Boeing 737 Max 8/9 is, likewise, about 2 years old.

Both ship & aircraft new enough to be unworn, but not so new as to be untested/debugged.
Seems strikingly similar to me.
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Old 24-03-2019, 09:38   #28
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Re: Cruise ship Viking Sky sends out a mayday call,

Must be going around. Just got off, today, Holland America new ship which also lost all four engines: Nieuw Statendam out of Ft Lauderdale. Missed our last port of call as we returned on two engines at 13kts.
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Old 24-03-2019, 13:12   #29
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Re: Cruise ship Viking Sky sends out a mayday call,

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Ship built 2 yrs ago. Any bugs should have been well shaken out by now, but motors still new enough to be at their best. And any bugs would have been worked out even in the software side.
Boeing 737 Max 8/9 is, likewise, about 2 years old.

Both ship & aircraft new enough to be unworn, but not so new as to be untested/debugged.
Seems strikingly similar to me.


Well, the Titanic was new, and the Hindenburg only a year or so old, so them too?

No, until we hear the cause of why the engines shutdown I donít think there is any similarities.
However in aircraft software has become a leading cause of accidents, when an aircraft is asked or put into a situation that wasnít predicted when the software was written.
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Old 24-03-2019, 15:46   #30
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Re: Cruise ship Viking Sky sends out a mayday call,

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Well, the Titanic was new, and the Hindenburg only a year or so old, so them too?

No, until we hear the cause of why the engines shutdown I don’t think there is any similarities.
However in aircraft software has become a leading cause of accidents, when an aircraft is asked or put into a situation that wasn’t predicted when the software was written.

WRT the Boeing 737 max, it looks like it was faulty sensor. This is a classic automation problem. I would have thought that for something critical enough to over-ride the pilots' input, they would have at least three sensors, like the old ships idea of having 3 chronometers. We will see what comes out in the final analysis.


This is also a classic example of safety devices turning out to have the opposite effect to that intended.
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