Coast Guard rescues sailor in Gulf of Alaska storm

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by tennis4789

Glad everyone ok.
How would the rescue be paid for?

The Coast Guard is expressly prohibited by statute (Title 46 US Code, sec. 2110) from charging a fee for any search and rescue service.
“(5) The Secretary may not collect a fee or charge under this subsection for any search or rescue service.”
➥ https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/46/2110

When a call for assistance is received by the Coast Guard, a determination is made, by the “SAR Mission Coordinator”, as to whether the emergency is a case of “distress.”
Distress is said to exist when grave or imminent danger, requiring immediate response, threatens a craft or person.
The Coast Guard will always render assistance to persons and property that are in genuine distress, so long as the resources for the rescue are available and the assistance can itself be rendered safely.

In 1982, Congress directed the Coast Guard to review its policies for towing and salvage of disabled vessels, to conserve valuable Coast Guard resources, and minimize competition with commercial enterprise.
The Coast Guard responded with its Maritime Search and Rescue Assistance Policy (MSAP), which gave rise to the commercial assistance towing industry, that we are familiar with today.

U.S. Coast Guard Addendum to the United States National SAR Supplement, Section 4.1
Section 4.1 Maritime SAR Assistance Policy (MSAP) begins on page 253.
➥ https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/C...0M16130.2F.pdf


See also: " Coast Guard Fee's for Rescue??? “
➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...cue-14738.html

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by tennis4789

Could/should the captain have done something different?

Newbie questions. Are most boat incidents avoidable? What's top 3 causes?

Yes, it was unwise to be offshore in Alaska at this time. I've been watching the systems marching through the NW and since late Sep it has been nearly constant intense lows. They seem early for this time of year.

The top cause of this sort of incident is overconfidence. Then being in the wrong place in the wrong time and being unprepared (boat or crew not capable).

But to answer your question generally, most "boating" accidents that result in injury or death are caused on fresh water by power driven vessels operating at high speeds and often with drivers under influence of alcohol.

[Oeanda]

One has to assume they didn’t actually intend to end up way out offshore. There’s really zero reason for them to go that route this time of year.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by tennis4789

Glad everyone ok.

How would the rescue be paid for?

Charging for rescues is one of those things that naively sounds like a good idea until you actually think about it for a couple minutes. It's hard enough for us to get people to call us when they start to get in trouble and can be easily rescued. Generally people wait until too long to call the Coast Guard, and in my experience that means we had to go out late at when the storm was much worst than 6 hours earlier when they first knew they were in trouble. Make people pay for rescue and they aren't going to call until the very worst conditions when the rescues are exponentially harder to pull off.

Make no mistake, the "make them pay for rescues" idea accomplishes absolutely nothing except putting rescue crews in greater danger. It's a dangerous idea masquerading as some kind of personal responsibility morality play.

[cofc]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Charging for rescues is one of those things that naively sounds like a good idea until you actually think about it for a couple minutes. It's hard enough for us to get people to call us when they start to get in trouble and can be easily rescued. Generally people wait until too long to call the Coast Guard, and in my experience that means we had to go out late at when the storm was much worst than 6 hours earlier when they first knew they were in trouble. Make people pay for rescue and they aren't going to call until the very worst conditions when the rescues are exponentially harder to pull off.

Make no mistake, the "make them pay for rescues" idea accomplishes absolutely nothing except putting rescue crews in greater danger. It's a dangerous idea masquerading as some kind of personal responsibility morality play.

Well said.

Not to mention that they are paying for the rescue, along with every other citizen. The Coast Guard is just like any other insurance plan. No one is complaining about folks filing a claim with their insurance after a lightning strike.

[jackdale]

There are a whole series of severe lows tracking through the the Gilf of Alaska.

Here is the 48 hour forecast.


Here is the NOAA web site:
https://www.weather.gov/marine/nepacificbrief

[Nord Sal]

Originally Posted by Oeanda

One has to assume they didn’t actually intend to end up way out offshore. There’s really zero reason for them to go that route this time of year.

He left from Seward, so he had to cross the gulf, so that much was intentional.

He could've come inside at Cape Spencer but who knows what was happening by then.

The weather has been a little harder than normal this fall, but fall weather is normally crap as anyone knows. Sitka radio reported that the Cape Edgecumbe buoy to the south and east of this rescue reported 35 foot seas early on Oct 2 (two days before rescue). I looked up the Fairweather Grounds Buoy data and it was 22 feet and "steep" or "very steep" at that time. I can't imagine anyone why anyone would choose to be out there in a small boat.

I knew a guy who left Dutch Harbor to cross the gulf to Port Townsend in mid-September in a 53-foot steel ketch. He lost his sails. Then he lost his rudder. And finally he lost his boat. I spoke with him after the loss and he was a changed man, clearly humbled. I think his case was just like waterman46 described: Overconfidence.

[Oeanda]

Ah I see -it was intentional- thanks for clearing that up. Still seems odd- I don’t know many who’d find a reason to go out there right now... Yeh it’s been a little worse than usual this year- banshees are howling at the dock here right now and picking up worse tonight. Another one passing to the south aimed at Vancouver island on Sunday that looks pretty snotty.

[Dsanduril]

Station 46085 (LLNR 984.15) - CENTRAL GULF OF ALASKA - 265NM West of Cape Ommaney, AK seems to be the closest buoy, about 100 miles W of the rescue point. For the worst part of the 11th it reports 30 knots, gusting 40 and 14' waves. Clearly a pretty deep low passed by that afternoon, the morning doesn't look too bad. At daybreak the barometer was at 1020, and 12 hours later is was at 990. That could be very unpleasant. Given how tight those lows can be 100 miles away could be significantly worse.

#YY  MM DD hh mm WDIR WSPD GST  WVHT   DPD   APD MWD   PRES  ATMP  WTMP  DEWP  VIS PTDY  TIDE
#yr  mo dy hr mn degT m/s  m/s     m   sec   sec degT   hPa  degC  degC  degC  nmi  hPa    ft
2021 10 11 20 50 180 10.0 13.0   4.2     8   7.0 168  988.1   9.9   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 20 40 170 11.0 14.0   4.2    MM   7.0 168  988.5   9.9   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 20 30 170 11.0 14.0    MM    MM    MM  MM  989.1   9.9   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 20 20 170 11.0 14.0    MM    MM    MM  MM  989.4   9.9   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 20 10 170 11.0 14.0    MM    MM    MM  MM  989.8   9.9   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 20 00 160 11.0 14.0    MM    MM    MM  MM  990.2   9.8   9.0    MM   MM -9.9    MM
2021 10 11 19 50 160 12.0 14.0   4.0     8   6.7 169  990.8   9.8   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 19 40 160 12.0 15.0   4.0    MM   6.7 169  991.3   9.7   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 19 30 160 12.0 16.0    MM    MM    MM  MM  991.7   9.7   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 19 20 150 12.0 16.0    MM    MM    MM  MM  992.4   9.5   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 19 10 150 14.0 17.0    MM    MM    MM  MM  992.5   9.4   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 19 00 150 14.0 18.0    MM    MM    MM  MM  993.0   9.3   9.0    MM   MM -11.5    MM
2021 10 11 18 50 150 15.0 19.0   3.7     8   6.5 171  993.7   9.1   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 18 40 140 15.0 19.0   3.7    MM   6.5 171  993.5   9.1   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 18 30 150 15.0 19.0    MM    MM    MM  MM  995.5   9.0   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 18 20 140 15.0 18.0    MM    MM    MM  MM  995.7   9.0   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 18 10 140 15.0 20.0    MM    MM    MM  MM  996.2   8.9   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 18 00 140 15.0 20.0    MM    MM    MM  MM  997.0   8.8   9.0    MM   MM -10.8    MM
2021 10 11 17 50 140 16.0 21.0   3.3     6   6.1 147  997.5   8.6   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 17 40 140 16.0 20.0    MM    MM    MM  MM  998.0   8.6   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 17 30 140 16.0 20.0    MM    MM    MM  MM  998.7   8.5   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 17 20 140 16.0 20.0    MM    MM    MM  MM  999.3   8.4   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 17 10 140 16.0 20.0    MM    MM    MM  MM 1000.1   8.3   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 17 00 140 16.0 21.0    MM    MM    MM  MM 1000.4   8.3   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
2021 10 11 16 50 140 15.0 19.0   2.6     6   5.7 174 1001.3   8.4   9.0    MM   MM   MM    MM
....
2021 10 11 08 00 200  7.0  9.0    MM    MM    MM  MM 1020.8   9.1   9.0    MM   MM -1.4    MM

[tennis4789]

Lightening strike is my insurance. If i don't own a boat, I'm still paying.

I wasn't really trying to go down the personal responsibility. Ambulances i think are getting crazy on who calls who pays etc.

I wanted to know who pays in case i get myself in trouble. Plus i wanted a free helicopter ride! Jk.

But then again states seem to tax boats so... . Coast Guard makes people pay for tows?

When i was in air force heard coast guard had some bad arses especially peace time drug interdiction.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by tennis4789

Lightening strike is my insurance. If i don't own a boat, I'm still paying.

I wasn't really trying to go down the personal responsibility. Ambulances i think are getting crazy on who calls who pays etc.

I wanted to know who pays in case i get myself in trouble. Plus i wanted a free helicopter ride! Jk.

But then again states seem to tax boats so... . Coast Guard makes people pay for tows?

When i was in air force heard coast guard had some bad arses especially peace time drug interdiction.

Since you asked, the towing thing is actually a big deal. The Coast Guard isn't supposed to compete with private tow companies and they scream if they think they lost a tow to the CG. So the CG will generally only do a tow if there isn't a private company that can do it safely.

As far as the helicopter ride, I used to tell people they never wanted to be in a position where we met up while I was doing my job because it would probably mean they were having a really bad day

[Spot]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Station 46085 (LLNR 984.15) - CENTRAL GULF OF ALASKA - 265NM West of Cape Ommaney, AK seems to be the closest buoy, about 100 miles W of the rescue point. For the worst part of the 11th it reports 30 knots, gusting 40 and 14' waves. Clearly a pretty deep low passed by that afternoon, the morning doesn't look too bad. At daybreak the barometer was at 1020, and 12 hours later is was at 990. That could be very unpleasant. Given how tight those lows can be 100 miles away could be significantly worse.

I was wondering about the conflicting condition reports too, IIRC:

- 70 knots and 30 foot waves
- 40 knots and 10 foot waves
(both would do it for me though...)

Redneckrob, are the airships able to read/log actual conditions?

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by tennis4789

Could/should the captain have done something different?

Newbie questions. Are most boat incidents avoidable? What's top 3 causes?

They sure are

[tennis4789]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Charging for rescues is one of those things that naively sounds like a good idea until you actually think about it for a couple minutes. It's hard enough for us to get people to call us when they start to get in trouble and can be easily rescued. Generally people wait until too long to call the Coast Guard, and in my experience that means we had to go out late at when the storm was much worst than 6 hours earlier when they first knew they were in trouble. Make people pay for rescue and they aren't going to call until the very worst conditions when the rescues are exponentially harder to pull off.

Make no mistake, the "make them pay for rescues" idea accomplishes absolutely nothing except putting rescue crews in greater danger. It's a dangerous idea masquerading as some kind of personal responsibility morality play.

Thanks. Call early. No charge.

Another question where is uscg able to help? Puerto Rico? Sailing to Hawaii? Mediterranean? Or call someone else in Mediterranean?

When should this guy have called? What are the signs/rules of thumb to make the call? Or just call CG & ask their advice?

One uncle is a pilot & one of his sayings is there are old pilots & bold pilots. But no old bold pilots.

Would the coast guard help get his boat to safety? Fix his boat issue? Or rescue him only?

[Oeanda]

Gusts to 74 knots at the Sandspit airport last night - blasted us good. Don’t even need to leave the dock to have fun right now....