Catamaran aground on Niue

[barnakiel]

I too used Cook's charts - on our passage from Cairns to Darwin. Or more correctly: I used xerox copies of charts based on Cook's measurements. If you look at that area it is studded with coral and such like paraphernalia. We did not hit anything (though at least once we got close to -



BECAUSE I WAS LOOKING AT THE GPS WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT THE WATER AHEAD.


Besides, how do you know Cook was onboard that unfortunate cat at Niue??? Their fb does not mention this.



Truly, get Cook off the hook. He was not there, and his charts are pretty darn good given the toys he had at hand.


b.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I too used Cook's charts - on our passage from Cairns to Darwin. Or more correctly: I used xerox copies of charts based on Cook's measurements. If you look at that area it is studded with coral and such like paraphernalia. We did not hit anything (though at least once we got close to -



BECAUSE I WAS LOOKING AT THE GPS WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT THE WATER AHEAD.


Besides, how do you know Cook was onboard that unfortunate cat at Niue??? Their fb does not mention this.



Truly, get Cook off the hook. He was not there, and his charts are pretty darn good given the toys he had at hand.


b.

For the upper Queensland area you really should get the tbh Bligh updates to the Cook charts. Lots more detail in certain areas🤐

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

They showed a screen shot of chart listed as a government chart. This listed a minimum depth of less than one meter. The screen shot looks like an electronic chart, which in theory is based upon the same data as the paper charts. Perhaps it is a lighthouse chart.

The chart shows looks clear enough to avoid the reef, but I would still be concerned if that were the best chart on board, even if it was being used.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I too used Cook's charts - on our passage from Cairns to Darwin. Or more correctly: I used xerox copies of charts based on Cook's measurements. If you look at that area it is studded with coral and such like paraphernalia. We did not hit anything (though at least once we got close to - ........

b.

You would have been using Matt Flinder's cartography... he found that by the time they reached Torres Strait Cook's longitudes were some 19 miles adrift....

Bass Strait is still based on the work of HMS Beagle in 184x...

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Paul L

For the upper Queensland area you really should get the tbh Bligh updates to the Cook charts. Lots more detail in certain areas🤐

Yes, indeed.


Correct me here but I think Bligh was Cook's pet before the former decided to become the first cruiser ...


Cheers,
b.

[Heg]

Originally Posted by stormalong

It is also possible that they were tied to a Niue mooring and it broke loose. IIRC you have to pick up a Niue Yacht club supplied mooring and there have been issues before.

Not the case in this instance. Although a yacht did break free from a mooring there this week. Not sure if it was chafe on the yachts lines or a mooring issue

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

You would have been using Matt Flinder's cartography... he found that by the time they reached Torres Strait Cook's longitudes were some 19 miles adrift....

Bass Strait is still based on the work of HMS Beagle in 184x...

Funny that.. my CM93 Nimble Navigator program took me through there without a hitch.. tides were a pain but manageable.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Paul Howard

The (digital) charts may also put the island slightly out of position and if the skipper planned his course too close to the island, he essentially drove his boat onto the beach. We found some islands could be a mile or two off position on some charts.

We do have the benefit of Cook's mensuration corrected with overhead imagery and of other helpful bits like overlaid Google Earth imagery and radar. The challenge is to use them effectively AND to keep your head out of the boat as others have said.

Originally Posted by BobHorn

Wouldn't the use of radar be more accurate than just a chartplotter?

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Some people have radars but don't know how to use them, although there are good, free online tutorials.

It is easy to use radar to keep a given distance off something. Sailors who have come after those who used celestial only tend to go closer to hard things than I want to.

Ann is spot on but Bob's question is a good one. Ultimately data that one does not have the skill to interpret and from which to make information is not helpful.

@Ann - I was very fortunate to get a lot of imagery interpretation training at the expense of the US taxpayer. Thank you US citizens. By any chance would you share a list of online tutorials you think well of? People ask me for that sort of help from time to time.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I think your /Fred/ requirements are a bit OTT. Preplanning a passage is a great idea and gives a starting point for your navigation.

I agree. It falls along the left side of the spectrum from routing to navigation to piloting. I'm perfectly happy doing routing based on big picture waypoints like those in Jimmy Cornell's "World Cruising Routes" filtered through pilot charts (I use Visual Passage Planner). Every morning I check the next two-ish days zoomed in. This gives me a sliding window of reassurance. I don't do it before departure because, as Jim points out, no plan survives contact with the enemy and weather may push us one way or another off the original plan.

Originally Posted by b_rodwell

With Lainie I am the owner, I am the skipper and I was on watch when it happened.

Dear Brian and Lainie, I am saddened by your loss. I look forward to your report. Learning from the misfortune and mistakes of others frees us to make new and creative mistakes of our own. Your willingness to share is noble indeed.

[Perfect Ride]

Originally Posted by b_rodwell

Yeeees!

With Lainie I am the owner, I am the skipper and I was on watch when it happened.

A lot of views have been expressed about what happened. This includes the Police chief from Niue who does not agree with me.

My views are different. I don't want to state my position right now. I want to assemble more facts to support what ever I say. The relevant facts should be available. Right now I have no working credit cards, no phone and no computer of mine to support my research. I also have a few other things to attend to. It might take me a while to do this research.

I want to report to the cruising community and anyone else that should know. I would like you to be patient and wait before making conclusions.

Thanks

Brian

Brian, So sorry to hear of your loss. We are hopeful you and crew are not injured. Tap into the cruisers there and you will find local support. If there is anything that we can do from shore in the USA please let me know via PM and I would be glad to assist. Rand

[exMaggieDrum]

We are also totally sorry for your loss. Things happen out there and we, and any of the rest of you, despite how careful you are, could have the same thing happen. Life happens and has a habit of hitting you from behind sometimes.



Given the situation, you did very well to end up where you where and with no, or few, injuries. It is a horrible thing to lose credit cards, IDs, passports, funds, etc. The loss of your boat is devastating. We wish you well. And thank you for posting on here.



I'm not trying to be an armchair captain here. I only mention this to give you what we "tried" to do out there in the Pacific. We were fortunate it worked out for us but still there were a couple of times that Mother Nature seemed determined to put us on the rocks. What we did as much as we could was to purposely stay well off of any landfalls (intentional landfalls) until the sun was up. We did "doughnuts" a couple of times in the dark despite the extra time it took to get close to an landfall 20-30nm out. We tried to slow down sometimes but that didn't always work and sometimes we thought we would get there in daylight and just couldn't get the miles and watched the sun go down close to.


There is a special feeling from coming in to a new place at dawn though. One time we decided it best to anchor in pretty much a roadstead spot coming in to Nieafu,Tonga. It was scary but magical. Coming in to the harbor in the dark would have been scarier. Our passage from Mexico to the Marquesas put us 20nm off of Hiva Oa around midnight so we beared off and waited for sunlight despite the outer harbor being pretty open and not hazardous. The watches on those times were adrenalined fueled.


But one other time coming in to Whangarei we were pretty stupid in not reefing down sooner and got pushed by a near gale so that we were headed to a set of rocks that have collected many a boat. Things happen and we were fortunate.



We certainly would never blame anyone else out there, with a few exceptions for true incompetence. This does not seem to be one of those. We wish you all speed in getting your life and your boat sorted out.

[seanallen]

Visited Niue about 4 years ago. There was. A 45' or so F.P. Bahia French cat on the hard being fixed up by a French guy who had bought it there from an insurance company. It had broken its mooring on the northern? side of the wharf and run onto the reef there. When getting towed off the keels were broken off. They were able to lift it onto the wharf and save it. The French crew flew back home and the insurance wrote it off. Another young Frenchman sailed in and bought it at auction. Another bidder wanted to use it as a land based restaurant on the island! When we were there it was close to repaired and is now no doubt cruising elsewhere. A delightful island nation with public moorings and tricky landing at the wharf.

[Peio64]

I also noticed large errors in Navionics charts in some places of the Agean sea (Greece). The more prominent of these errors was located at the island of Oinousses (between Chios and Turkey). Fig. 1 illustrates this error in the coastline which extended to the eastern coast of Chios and to the western coast of Turkey though less pronounced. The black line in the figure delineate the real coastline given by French ENC S-57 map.
On my demand this error was corrected in 2010 by Navionics and since, I was rather quiet when sailing around Oinousses Island and N-E of Chios Island.

Last year in september I was sailing from Oinousses harbor to Lesbos (no wind, engine and autopilot) when some minutes after leaving the harbor, my boat went aground at 6 Kn on a well known rock that I was certain to leave at starboard when looking at the live GPS trace on the map. This trace is shown in Fig. 2, the place of the accident being circled in black, way outside the supposed dangerous area. Fortunately my boat is built in aluminium and the damage was limited to a big bump in the keel. But a fiberglass one would had certainly suffered from huge damages if not worse.
When exporting my trace in Google Earth (Fig. 3), one can sea that my route goes directly to the center of the rock and this is confirmed when I report the coordinates of the point of impact in the Navionics for Android app ("Boating"), Fig.4.


In other words, the corrections for this area that I initiated in 2010 were not complete in the 2012 version of the map. This very dangerous rock was omitted. Since then, they were obviously completed but Navionics didn't proposed an update or at least a warning, even to me...

[SV Melody]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

This post from Sept 2017 maybe?
"Navionics Sonar Charts & The Missing Reef"
Crystal Blues: Navionics Sonar Charts & The Missing Reef

I just read that entire page, comments and everything. All I can say is that that is shocking how many serious, boat-killing errors are in those charts. I'm a bit new to all this so I still fall victim to clever marketing from time to time. This link may have saved me a sinking though, so thanks for posting it.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Has anyone heard any updates from Brian on what happened and how they are dong? In post 23 on 4 August of this year he mentioned that he was collecting data on what happened?