Catalina 30 Missing Off Atlantic Coast

[shrspeedblade]

That $400 bucks for a PLB just doesn't seem as expensive now.....

[Brioche]

Gulf Stream has been a problem for a long time.

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by shrspeedblade

That $400 bucks for a PLB just doesn't seem as expensive now.....

Exactly. All the bragging comments about hand steering via compass, offshore without electronics or radios, and other macho sailer attributes reminds me of my funny father in law who used to come up with goofy “I was so poor…” stories and “walked 12 miles to school. In the snow. Uphill. Both ways”. (RIP Dad)

I’m not advocating across the board billing for rescue services. But as a taxpayer, some of this fails the sniff test. Sometimes there needs to be some accountability… AND repercussions. I don’t want to discourage people from throwing off the lines and heading out. But with that NEEDS to be a minimum level of capability (vessel equipment/training/experience).

Tens of thousand of dollars and hundreds of man hours were spent looking for these two. Men and women suited up and put their lives at risk in the process. All because two “experienced” sailors decided to take a small boat into risky waters while what appears to be woefully unprepared. I fully understand storms, equipment failures, and accidents - despite our best planning and efforts. But, until the story is updated to say their EPIRB failed, I say this is unacceptable. And as I said earlier, I’ve witnessed this enough times to call Bullsh!t.

[boatman61]

I would not say 2 'experienced' sailors.. dunno about the boat owner but 'Tomato's' was a motorboat man with little or no sailing experience.
As for bragging.. stating what is possible is not braggadocio merely stating what can be done if not raised with an addiction to electrical aids.
This was also before it was found the vessel had been dismasted and the engine disabled..
But hey.. you don't want to know about self help in times of failure hit that button..

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

Exactly. All the bragging comments about hand steering via compass, offshore without electronics or radios, and other macho sailer attributes reminds me of my funny father in law who used to come up with goofy “I was so poor…” stories and “walked 12 miles to school. In the snow. Uphill. Both ways”. (RIP Dad)

I’m not advocating across the board billing for rescue services. But as a taxpayer, some of this fails the sniff test. Sometimes there needs to be some accountability… AND repercussions. I don’t want to discourage people from throwing off the lines and heading out. But with that NEEDS to be a minimum level of capability (vessel equipment/training/experience).

Tens of thousand of dollars and hundreds of man hours were spent looking for these two. Men and women suited up and put their lives at risk in the process. All because two “experienced” sailors decided to take a small boat into risky waters while what appears to be woefully unprepared. I fully understand storms, equipment failures, and accidents - despite our best planning and efforts. But, until the story is updated to say their EPIRB failed, I say this is unacceptable. And as I said earlier, I’ve witnessed this enough times to call Bullsh!t.

Sounds like your Dad lived at the time when many of us grew up and had our first few boats.

Most of us had no radio or compass and were "offshore" many times in this state. We could barely afford our boats much less safety equipment or a radio.

We had no way to call for help.

Today though none of us that experienced those times would get anywhere near the GS in December on a 30' coastal cruising sailboat without some sort of satellite communication device, VHF, and PLB.

In December in this area there are mainly Northerly winds this time of year. You simply don't go screwing around with the GS on a small boat at this time of year.

You also do not sail out through Oregon Inlet.

You don't need to have crossed oceans as a cruiser or had overnight passages to know some of the basics of coastal cruising in this area...or to know what safety equipment to have

As far as being offshore with minimal equipment back in the day, it's just what happens when you are young and don't fully understand the consequences....

It still chills me at night sometimes when I think of myself and my teenage wife in a beatup 17' power boat with an ancient engine 12-15 miles off Morehead City, NC in the Atlantic Ocean.

No radio, no compass, no nothing. And no one even knew we were out on the boat. Family was in Virginia.

So we came in fine with the engine missing a bit but had trouble locating Beaufort Inlet. We finally spotted the wake and white hull of a boat so headed that way....

That was one day among many but usually it was me and some other teenage boys mid Chesapeake Bay without any equipment which is just about as bad as the bay is 30 miles wide in the area we fished below Tangier

[rslifkin]

Thomm, in the days you're describing, it was often not known what kind of trouble someone got into when things went wrong (unless they were lucky enough to be found). They just disappeared and that's all anyone knew.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

…… in the days you're describing…… ….. They just disappeared and that's all anyone knew.

Yes that is how many of us started. It was somewhat Darwinian.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by shrspeedblade

That $400 bucks for a PLB just doesn't seem as expensive now.....

This is all you even need. Works on land or at sea. 406 location alert AND 121.5MHz homing signal. Strobe too. Cost almost nothing and could save your life and make SAR a lot easier than “some guys in a blue boat didn’t show up”

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Thomm, in the days you're describing, it was often not known what kind of trouble someone got into when things went wrong (unless they were lucky enough to be found). They just disappeared and that's all anyone knew.

Yes I know.

My two friends and I at age 17 found ourselves with no power one night mid Chesapeake Bay as it was getting dark in my small boat.

The boat was a V bottom 14' aluminum something like Sears used to sell.

With all three of us onboard the water was about 2"-3" below the top sides of the boat

We were picked up at around 3 am having signaled by pouring gasoline on a rag wrapped around an oar and lighting it. We had no flashlight and the outboard was pull start

Point is had their been a big squall or strong front come through I don't know what would have happened. I don't think the boat had floatation and we didn't have 3 PFD's.

I had taken lifesaving and had on jeans which can be made into a PFD so there was a chance we would have survived a storm/squall but the boat probably would have sank or at least been at water level.

Point is you remember these event later in life and try to avoid having it happen again.

Btw we had no food or water either and the beer was gone......

[Brioche]

If it was their decision to a) go outside, and b) use that boat, as it was equipped, that was certainly a bad decision. We do not have the final story, though it sounds like that was the case. I am reminded of an accident 15 years or so ago when man and his two teenage sons were headed to Charleston on the ICW. They missed a turn and ended up outside and sailed on down to Charleston on the ocean side. They did well enough, but must have been dead tired and also did not have any navigation of any type (had intended to just follow the coast). Charleston harbor is protected by a big jetty, which they ran into and sank, all lost, though the kids seem to have nearly swum ashore. Given this recent incident involved a 30 foot boat, I wonder if those guys had intended to stay on the ICW and got lost also.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Brioche

If it was their decision to a) go outside, and b) use that boat, as it was equipped, that was certainly a bad decision. We do not have the final story, though it sounds like that was the case. I am reminded of an accident 15 years or so ago when man and his two teenage sons were headed to Charleston on the ICW. They missed a turn and ended up outside and sailed on down to Charleston on the ocean side. They did well enough, but must have been dead tired and also did not have any navigation of any type (had intended to just follow the coast). Charleston harbor is protected by a big jetty, which they ran into and sank, all lost, though the kids seem to have nearly swum ashore. Given this recent incident involved a 30 foot boat, I wonder if those guys had intended to stay on the ICW and got lost also.

No if you exit Oregon Inlet as they did you definitely would know you are not in Kansas any longer. (I mean the ICW)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deqjYDSDtQI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaxY3kb65Go

[idclic]

Originally Posted by thomm225

No if you exit Oregon Inlet as they did you definitely would know you are not in Kansas any longer. (I mean the ICW)

Thanks for these videos. Very informative. Most of the commercial fishermen said that they shake at the knees when crossing. One even mentions that he feels there is an element of luck in crossing the bar...

Another guy mentions that at 6' draft, he'll often bump the bottom. Not the place you want to be in a sailboat unless you have no other alternative.

[5BTM]

Great seamanship by the tanker crew.

The lookout spotted them, the bridge personnel came alongside in wind and waves without causing any damage, got the dog and the crew off a bobbing cork without injury.

Kudos!

[ChrisJHC]

The question of charging for rescues surfaces every so often here in Australia. Usually in an on-land context but the same principles apply.

The overwhelming response from the emergency services is that they would rather be called out early (and for what some would regard for frivolous reasons) than have people wait for too long and then have it become a body-recovery mission.

They argue that charging for the service would lead to some people waiting well past the last safe moment to press the panic button.

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I would not say 2 'experienced' sailors.. dunno about the boat owner but 'Tomato's' was a motorboat man with little or no sailing experience.
As for bragging.. stating what is possible is not braggadocio merely stating what can be done if not raised with an addiction to electrical aids.
This was also before it was found the vessel had been dismasted and the engine disabled..
But hey.. you don't want to know about self help in times of failure hit that button..

My comments were not intended to be an affront to you or anyone else here. Many of you have more miles under your belt and days at sea than I. I respect that. I do think we could agree there are too many out there with a lack of education and training in basic seamanship skills. That is what I was attempting to speak to. Unfortunately there is also a lot of bravado expressed in these forums on occasion. And at times distain for modern “conveniences”. I am sure that if these forums had existed decades ago, some old salt would show up bragging about how you don’t need sextants! “Hell, back in my day, we only had the sun, moon and stars… not those dang metal contraptions”! (Full disclosure, I am a retired “boomer” having fully earned this grey hair and white whiskers!).

I can assure you I do believe in self help. My “crash kit”, spares, and ample well used tool bag is a testament to that. My comment regarding an EPIRB was not intended as the end all solution, but rather that the lack of an EPIRB or PLB in MY book is an absolute indication of overall lack of preparedness. There is no excuse for it anymore. For the price of a smartphone that 98% of society deems essential, they could have had a handlheld VHF with DSC… AND a PLB.