Car Carrier overturns in Brunswick River, Ga.

[MicHughV]

I think what happened was this....

There was a sailor out there trying to see if sail has right-of-way over power....
This is called the SOP R-O-W maneuver.....

The carrier honked 5 times....honk...honk....honk....honk...honk to let the sailboat know this was not a good time to test that theory....
That is called the OSWTFIDID......oh s**t.....what t** f*** Is Dat Idiot Doing

However, the sailor was drunk and was actually below fetching another beer and not paying any attention to all the honking.
This is called the LOCS....Lack of Common Sense....it's location is usually above the CoG, but is known to reside in one's rear end...and is sometimes referred to as DA....dumb a***hole.....

The carrier then implemented a hard turn to the right to miss the dumb SOB (I don't think it is necessary to explain this one.....the carrier bounced off a sand bar...but the mass of the ship overcame the frictional resistance of the sand bar but this sudden movement caused all the cars slid to one side of the carrier....in other words, the CoG was overcomes by MoC..Movement of Cars...

Clear so far.....

The drunk sailor finally poked his head out of the companion...and saw the carrier on it's side....
WTF.....were the very words he uttered....as he wondered what is that ship doing on it's side.

There....I think that should explain it all...

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

It’s how some define stability, maybe.
I define it the way it’s done in aviation, the force required to upset from a stabilized condition.

For example, remove the mast on a mono sailboat and stability the way I define it will increase, however the ride quality will suffer and the thing will be very uncomfortable in any amount of seas, some say it makes it unstable.

Cruise ships are intentionally top heavy for instance, to slow down the roll rate and make them more comfortable. Some I guess would define them as being more stable, but they are more likely to turtle than a vessel that has a lower CG.

What is VCG? Vertical?

Originally Posted by foggysail

Are you sure cruise ships are top heavy? That is not what I read.

a64pilot is absolutely correct.

Although the use of the phrase 'top heavy' may be confusing.

Passenger vessels are purposely designed to be 'less stable' (NB: not unstable, or unsafe) than they otherwise could be, and this is indeed for a slow roll period, which is for passenger comfort.

Here is a some relatively simple info:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metacentric_height

The metacentric height (GM) is a measurement of the initial static stability of a floating body. It is calculated as the distance between the centre of gravity of a ship and its metacentre. A larger metacentric height implies greater initial stability against overturning.

The metacentric height also influences the natural period of rolling of a hull, with very large metacentric heights being associated with shorter periods of roll which are uncomfortable for passengers. Hence, a sufficiently, but not excessively, high metacentric height is considered ideal for passenger ships.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metace...rolling_period

The metacentre has a direct relationship with a ship's rolling period. A ship with a small GM will be "tender" - have a long roll period.

A larger metacentric height on the other hand can cause a vessel to be too "stiff"; excessive stability is uncomfortable for passengers and crew. This is because the stiff vessel quickly responds to the sea as it attempts to assume the slope of the wave. An overly stiff vessel rolls with a short period and high amplitude which results in high angular acceleration.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Q Xopa

Im not sure what you are saying either.

My understanding of Weight and Balance is-
Removing weight from below the CoG (centre of gravity) and/ or adding it above the CoG will Raise the CoG. The further from the CoG, ie the 'Arm', the greater this effect. Its a simple Force (weight) x Distance calculation. A raised CoG is less stable by my understanding.

In sailboat terms its the equivalent of less low weight ie ballast in the keel and more weight aloft. This sounds less stable to me.

But I am obviously misunderstanding some terminology or something here.
If you could try and re explain please.

What you said is correct.


And it doesn't contradict at all what I wrote.


Just re-read it, and I'm sure you will understand.


The key point is that ALL the car decks of the typical car carrier are ABOVE the VCG (Vertical Center of Gravity) of the ship. So ANY cars removed from the ship will LOWER the VCG and improve the stability. Including cars removed from the lower decks. Is that more clear?

[Shenandoah52]

Here is an article on another of these type of accidents. I've highlighted what stood out to me.

"Investigations revealed that on completion of loading, the vessel departed with positive but inadequate stability, which was marginally below the minimum stability criteria set out by the IMO. Also, no calculations reflective of the actual stability condition had been done prior to the vessel’s departure. Cargo distribution was such that the upper car decks of the vessel were full while the lower decks were lightly loaded. Given that she was low on bunker fuel, the overall vertical center of gravity (VCG) of the vessel was very high."

https://www.mpa.gov.sg/assets/srs/e-...gulations.html

[jmh2002]

I couldn't read the Brunswick News (GDPR fail) but I read this article earlier today:

https://gcaptain.com/four-missing-as...swick-georgia/

"AIS ship tracking data shows the Marshall Islands-flagged Golden Ray was outbound from the port when it became disabled. The ship has a destination of Baltimore."

[MicHughV]

hard to believe that the tiny town of Brunswick is considered a " Port".....but it is....like Fernandina, J'ville, Savannah, etc.....these " ports" are located on a river...sometimes way up a river....
People think of a port as being right at the ocean's edge...a logical place for a " port".....ie, Cape Town....etc...but many ports are " inside" some or other water body...

In the case of Brunswick, there are also big tidal differences, tidal currents, several bends, etc...

Finally, every port usually has a local "pilot" on the ship, guiding ships leaving or entering and I am wondering if this came into play...

A very unusual occurrence, no doubt....the lawyers will have a fun time sorting this out..

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

What you said is correct.


And it doesn't contradict at all what I wrote.


Just re-read it, and I'm sure you will understand.


The key point is that ALL the car decks of the typical car carrier are ABOVE the VCG (Vertical Center of Gravity) of the ship. So ANY cars removed from the ship will LOWER the VCG and improve the stability. Including cars removed from the lower decks. Is that more clear?

Yes, you are exactly correct. My bad I missed your reference to ALL cars are above the CoG.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by Q Xopa

Yes, you are exactly correct. My bad I missed your reference to ALL cars are above the CoG.

@dockhead. For it now. We were both saying the same thing —- sorta

[StuM]

Rather than a problem with unloading bottom deck before top deck, could it be unloading one side before the other?

[skipperpete]

The car carrier was reported to be departing the port loaded with 4,200 vehicles.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by StuM

Rather than a problem with unloading bottom deck before top deck, could it be unloading one side before the other?

Sure it could, but I’m relatively sure that they load cars in Brunswick, probably a lot of them Kia’s from the Ala plant.
Whatever it’s worth if you remove the same amount of weight from the lower decks, you will result in a more unstable boat than if they were removed from the upper decks.

But back to I think they only load, not unload in Brunswick? They are a lot of them, and all seem to not be that large really, but boxy ugly things.
One that passed us in Brunswick.


I wouldn’t be too surprised if grounding didn’t play a part.

[jmh2002]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdqe4rmbYAo

Video for anyone that is interested.

Originally Posted by gCaptain

The Coast Guard and port partners are searching for the remaining four crewmembers aboard the 656-foot vehicle carrier GOLDEN RAY, in St. Simons Sound, near Brunswick, Georgia, Sept. 8, 2019. A Coast Guard MH-65 Dolphin helicopter aircrews and other port partners rescued 20 people after it was reported the vessel was disabled, listing, and had a fire on board. U.S. Coast Guard video by Air Station Savannah.

[AA3JY]

MSN update report..

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/4-crew-members-are-still-missing-24-hours-after-a-cargo-ship-overturned/ar-AAH0ERF?li=BBnbfcL

[AA3JY]

My contacts on St.Simon’s Island, Ga. said that the USCG is contact via marine VHF radio with possible missing crew members still on board.

[Uricanejack]

Hmmm. Lots of speculation. No knowing what happened, kind of early to presume crew screwed up loading.
CG reports vessel disabled, fire on vessel, vessel listing, vessel capsized, crew missing.

Typically car carriers are “tender” vessels with relatively small GM. Or low positive stability.
Car carriers typically have wide open car decks like most Ro Ro vessels eg Ferries.

In the event of a fire. Particularly car deck or machinery space. The use of fixed fire fighting system such as a car deck sprinkler or even fire hoses for boundary cooling. Can put a large amount of water onto the car deck.
A risk or hazard associated with the use of such systems.
If the water can’t get of the deck faster than it is put on the deck.
Free surface effect.
Which can cause a significant virtual loss of stability
The higher the deck the greater the effect, even accommodation decks can be a problem.
Vessels with large open car decks are particularly vulnerable.
So are passenger vessels. Eg the France.

Cargo shifting

Grounding can also cause a loss of stability.

Or a combination of all