A case against crayfish cages

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by deblen

Things that work in NE US/E. Canada to shed rope,rockweed,kelp,balls of discarded rope floating level, & other semi floating debris:


1. check your bottom for "catches".Using floating rope such as lifering rope,run the rope down over the stem & pull it slowly to the stern (Keelhauling) looking for catches.
This takes 2 people.


2. Install a length of 300#+ test line from 2 SS wood screws-one screwed into the lower aft tip of keel & the other screwed into the bottom of rudder at center of pivot,or into skeg,etc. The purpose of using line that will break is in case you forget it is there or are unable to remove it at liftout.


3.Do something similar to item 2. for winged keels & any other vertical front "catchy" protrusions.


4.Install a "rudder line shedder" if needed eg. spade rudders.


5.Saildrives,etc. Install a 300+# test line or marine aluminum (6000series alum.) rod/pipe at an angle from the prop gear housing up to the hull bottom-(custom made)


6.If you have an exposed inboard prop,shaft & strut-(no keel protection for prop) give consideration to a prop cage like fishermen use.


7.Install a line cutter on prop shaft.


8.Pass buoys on the down current /Butt/Blunt end.


9.Do not reverse , maneuver ,turn sharply or drift in a buoy field. Cruise straight thru.


10. Sailing, without shaft turning,thru buoys should be no problem as long as items 1.-6. are done.




I am not making an argument for/against the pot situation. I live amongst it & have accepted that it is what it is & I make it as easy for me as I can.


YMMV Hope this helps/Len

Thank you,

Very interesting recommendations and well accepted advice.
Well worthy of implementation.

The lines from keel to rudder not an easy install under water, but very doable.

Glad for the post. Can work on my Cat because it has fibreglass rudder. 🙂

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by deblen

That is interesting to hear that you don't experience pot warp fouling in EU.
Are your pots set as thick as Maine? Cheers/Len

Not as thick as that but then the shores are not as rocky nor as full of islands and little bays like yours.. I would only daysail in those conditions.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I'm just curious about this.....you were (are) on a cat....generally speaking the props and rudder are pretty exposed....

On a mono, these appendages are normally...somewhat..... protected behind a keel....

Not wanting to start a mono/multi dialog here, but would like to hear your opinion, that if you were on a basic fin keel type mono, could this situation have been averted ???? in other words, would the depth of the keel be sufficient to push the line out of harm's way ??

I've had some pot dodging experiences in Maine, approaching at night, where the keel snagged the line, but it did not get caught in the prop. Maybe I was lucky. Maybe it was the keel ??

Open dialogue most welcome.
Besides qualifying for my skippers licence on a mono, I haven't had any experience with mono's to supply an experienced view.

What I can say is this:
I had on other occasions also passed over pots and buoy lines. Drifting over them with great success, especially in calmer waters where the pot rope runs vertically down from the buoy. No problems.

In this instance the strong W current pushed the bouys sideways, which pulled their rope more to a horizontal angle. Since I was taking the short cut out of the area, my approach was now more perpendicular to the ropes.

The stretched ropes also gave them more spring. Whereas a slacker rope could have dangled and be pushed away more readily by a keel, this did not happen in this instance with the rope under tension. As soon as the rope passed the keel, (adding more tension), it must have sprung up aft the keel, straight to the top of the rudder, which is a mere 2ft height difference.

Thus the mono with a deeper keel, could provide better protection if the distance between the keel and the rudder/propeller is covered quicker over speed, before the pot rope can cover the up travel on its way to the keel.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by GILow

Gerrit,

Congratulations.

Seriously, you have two of the attributes I think are essential to a good sailor:

1. A healthy dose of good luck. You survived a very dangerous event and a number of things that could have gone wrong did not.

2. MUCH more importantly, you coped extremely well under immense pressure.

I have no doubt that the vast majority of the critics on this thread would have been hiding down below on the cabin sole, rocking and sucking their thumb in that situation. But they are brave enough to tell you everything you did wrong from the perilous environment of their recliner with foot rest while they get the missus to fetch them another beer because “they have to tell this guy what he did wrong”.

You sir, are brilliant under pressure, and self aware enough to reflect on what would have been a bloody horrible experience. I hope I never have to make the kind of decisions you had to make at that time, but if I do, I hope I can act with even a fraction of the resolve you demonstrated.

I am certain that I would feel totally safe as a crew member on your boat, and would really enjoy knowing the skipper does not go to pieces at the fist sign of trouble.

I don’t know, or care, if you did the best thing in the circumstances. I do know that you are still here to write about it, and your crew are hear to read about it, and that’s good enough for me.

On the issue of pot markers, I heartily agree with you.

I recently navigated a pot field in what were ideal conditions, and actually it was a lot of fun. (Sorry to tell you this, but it was a sunny day, I had 15 knots of offshore breeze on the beam, the sun was glinting off the waves. I had a ball ducking and weaving in between the pots. I was LUCKY.). But even in those ideal conditions I noticed that some of the pots were either marked with old crusty floats that were barely visible, or, worse still, were tailing dozens of meters of line on the surface. (I later found out that some kind of sea or fishing condition had forced the fishermen to move their pots to shallower water, clearly some of them had decided shortening the lines was too much work or expense.). I simply do not accept the argument that the fishermen would be hard done by if they had to pay to improve the visibility of their pots. Where I have sailed from most of the fishermen are getting around in tricked up 4WDs where the accessories on the front bullbar alone would cost more than a full suite of decent, visible floats. Maybe in some areas they are less affluent, but where I came from they are loaded to the eyeballs with cash, often holding fishing licenses worth millions of dollars that were handed down from their hard working dads.

So, by all means ask yourself if you could have done it differently, and by all means worry and fret at the problem as I know I would for weeks, but the end of the day stand back and give yourself a well deserved pat on the back for not going to bits under pressure, for FIXING the problem and for getting everyone home safe.

Matt

Dear Matt,

Your reply brought goosebumps and almost tears to my eyes.
In a quest to merely beg for greater visibility, I was struck by the lack of sympathy, or the lack of appreciation of the conditions, by a few of the commentators.

I did not take days to built the courage to write the article with some detail, to receive the accolades you bestowed on me, (which is appreciated tremendously), besides raising some awareness to a problem that will increase due to the increase in both boaters and more pots.

In my view, you encapsulate the essence, appreciate the dangers enough, and bold enough to say whay you said.

Honours to you.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

A reply to a former poster:

So much good in your post.

I wish to highlight one statement: Trying to stay outside the crab gear violates my first rule of coastal running: don't go any further offshore than necessary.

We need to reach consensus with them on how to share responsibly the seas. Two buoys are not cutting it anymore.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by dfelsent

I’ve caught my share of pot warps. In cold water. It’s not fun.
I am a RECREATIONAL boater.
They are COMMERCIAL fishermen.
Some here need to get over their entitlement and share the sea.

I agree fully.
There is no difference or higher entitlement between them being commercial, or me as recreational. Doing a paid fishing trip makes me commercial too, and yet some still expect only the boater to yield.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by BillKny

Of all the nautical inventions EVER made, IPS drives rank among the DUMBEST EVER. Completely unprotected against ANYTHING in the ocean. And why??? for a totally trivial improvement in efficiency.

If somebody sold you on one (OR TWO!) of these, you deserve every repair bill you get.

Unapologetically, this is a crude and uncalled for remark. Lest it happens to you, one way or the other. I must disapprove of such hurtful content.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Gerrit Coetzee

A reply to a former poster:

So much good in your post.

I wish to highlight one statement: Trying to stay outside the crab gear violates my first rule of coastal running: don't go any further offshore than necessary.

We need to reach consensus with them on how to share responsibly the seas. Two buoys are not cutting it anymore.

Why do you have reluctance to voyage in deeper waters, e.g. 400 - 500 feet?

The boat doesn't handle any differently in deep or shallow waters.

The shore is often where more dangers lay.

[dfelsent]

I found my Damariscotta River video. Lots of buoys

https://youtu.be/y0_6AshdIu4

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by dfelsent

I found my Damariscotta River video. Lots of buoys

https://youtu.be/y0_6AshdIu4

Those lines are very well marked. Each of course unique in their color designations so as to be identifiers of ownership.

[Montanan]

A snipet from a proposed amendment to the law in California [not sure if it was adopted]:

Proposed Regulatory Language
Section 29.80, Title 14 CCR, is amended to read:
§ 29.80. Gear Restrictions for Recreational Take of Saltwater Crustaceans

https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.a...=183156&inline


Trap Gear Identification: Every crab trap shall be marked with only a main
buoy and a marker buoy, except as noted under subsection 29.80(c)(3)(C)
below.
(A) A main buoy is a surface buoy that is at least 5 inches in diameter and 11
inches in length.
1. The main buoy for traps deployed by an individual shall be legibly marked
with the operator’s assigned GO ID number.
2. The main buoy for traps deployed from a commercial passenger fishing
vessel shall be legibly marked to identify the commercial boat registration
number of that vessel.
(B) A marker buoy is a red buoy 3 inches in diameter and 5 inches in length
attached no more than 3 feet from the Main Buoy.
(C)In addition to marking the buoy pursuant to subsection (c)(3)(A)2., traps
deployed by commercial passenger fishing vessels shall be legibly marked to
identify the commercial boat registration number of the vessel.

[oldjags]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Why do you have reluctance to voyage in deeper waters, e.g. 400 - 500 feet?

The boat doesn't handle any differently in deep or shallow waters.

The shore is often where more dangers lay.

I agree. Farther offshore is better, particularly if it's a lee shore, like the entire west coast. I am much more nervous in shallow water than in deep, and the farther off you are, the more time you have to react if you have mechanical problems, like a fouled prop.

Get your prop wrapped only a mile offshore, and you may only have 30-45 minutes before you are washed up on the rocks. That's not enough time for SeaTow to come get you, and probably not enough time for you to untangle it yourself.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Why do you have reluctance to voyage in deeper waters, e.g. 400 - 500 feet?

The boat doesn't handle any differently in deep or shallow waters.

The shore is often where more dangers lay.

On this specific trip, we were 5days at sea. From PR to Tortola. Crossing 10,000ft.
400+ft is nothing. Yet, yet!! We were sailing 5 days, to Tortola and back for customs requirements. We were on the 5th day in very unpleasant weather. We needed to make harbour in PR before dawn. The shortest possible route was closer to shore.
Secondly, I was using the island to block the 12ft NE swells. Getting closer to shore the swells grew smaller to 9ft.
Doing a wide detour was not on my wishlist. But, I was on my way out to deeper waters, when we fouled.

[tramuntana]

Slightly related: Croatia seems to be slowly rolling out a system where small fishermen are forced by law to mark all of their equipment via a uniquely-identifiable tracking device. Equipment not found to be marked in such a way will supposedly be confiscated. This is being pushed as a way to stop illegal fishing, but a side-effect is the creation of a central database monitoring the location of all such equipment. Might be a stepping stone towards having this information (anonymised) available to the general boating public? Fishing buoys in Croatia are often just a floating plastic bottle that can hardly be seen even in daylight under nice conditions.

- The buoy monitoring project for passive tools was launched last year. A sensor is installed in the buoy to record the position of the tool. The benefits are multiple, as it shows which tools are used in which areas. [...] I hope that we will start with this as early as next year, and in three years we could equip all fishing tools with the necessary sensors - says Mišura.

Here's the article in Croatian, and automatically translated to English.

[Lance835]

Glad it worked out for you! Great job.
I sailed the coast of Maine and will not return due to the rude fishermen. I gleefully cut pots in channels. I am one of the few it seems that channels are for boats to go from one place to another. They are not for anchoring, scuba diving, or sunbathing on a float. They should be clear of obstructions! Period. Millions of dollars are spent charting the oceans and channels are clearly marked on charts. There are millions of square miles to put silly pots other than boating channels. It will be really nice when the creatures they fish for are gone forever. Sorry fishermen but you do not care about boaters why should I care about you?