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Old 09-09-2022, 23:17   #1
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5 dead NZ, boat reportedly overturned by whale.

Police have confirmed the 8.5m boat capsized after a collision Ė previously reported as being with a whale Ėbut were still investigating what had happened.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/129...ragic-incident
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Old 09-09-2022, 23:32   #2
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Re: 5 dead NZ, boat reportedly overturned by whale.

11 people plus a skipper, on an 8.5m dinghy? Not saying it contributed to the incident, but that seems a little overloaded, to me.
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Old 09-09-2022, 23:46   #3
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Re: 5 dead NZ, boat reportedly overturned by whale.

I believe this is the boat mentioned in the article....

Quote:
The boat involved is understood to belong to local fishing charter business, Fish Kaikoura.
https://www.fishkaikoura.co.nz/

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Old 10-09-2022, 00:33   #4
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Re: 5 dead NZ, boat reportedly overturned by whale.

Very competent skipper, with many years experience. A lovely man to chat to. And a good safe boat. Aluminium pontoon hull. I don't know pax rating, but 11 is a lot.

5 bodies apparently recovered from inside the cockpit.
The website shows all photos of customers wearing inflatable life jackets.
If these were automatic inflation, and the boat capsized, it would be impossible to swim out from underneath.
If the boat had been whizzing along at speed, and hit the whale, there would likely have been significant injuries.
Plus, that water in Kaikoura is very *cold*.
Hypothermia would have been fairly quick.
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Old 10-09-2022, 14:54   #5
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Re: 5 dead NZ, boat reportedly overturned by whale.

A very competent skipper ? 11 people in that boat. Older people.
You have got to be kidding.
Not just overloaded but they were Sperm Whales out there in cold water.
Anybody who knows or has read anything about sperm whales ought to know that is one dangerous whale.
I donít care what the capacity plate states. He ought to be brought up for criminal proceedings.
A needless tragedy.
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Old 10-09-2022, 16:48   #6
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Re: 5 dead NZ, boat reportedly overturned by whale.

Posted without comment
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300...ocked-saddened
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Old 10-09-2022, 17:17   #7
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Re: 5 dead NZ, boat reportedly overturned by whale.

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Old 10-09-2022, 18:10   #8
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Re: 5 dead NZ, boat reportedly overturned by whale.

The boat was surveyed for 10 passengers plus at least one crew, so not overloaded
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Old 11-09-2022, 03:54   #9
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Re: 5 dead NZ, boat reportedly overturned by whale.

Quote:
The whale collision was the “initial report that came through the grapevine,” he said.
“None of the people who were actually on the boat have said to me personally, that that's what actually happened, [but] it does seem like that is a possibility and obviously Maritime NZ and police will follow up.”

Sounds like they really don't know yet if a whale was involved or not. Getting news from the "grapevine" isn't a good idea.
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Old 11-09-2022, 06:10   #10
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Re: 5 dead NZ, boat reportedly overturned by whale.

As I stated in my post I donít care what the capacity plate states. Iím qualified as a USCG vessel safety coordinator and worked Pro Bono for the Chairman of the Merchant Marine and Fisheries sub committee and my father was an Attorney in Admirality and Maritime. I grew up in the fishing port of New Bedford and was senior science and technology officer for the second largest fishing fleets in the US. Lastly, I hold a Merchant Mariners Credential.
The responsibility for this tragedy rests primarily on the vessel captain.
It also falls upon the New Zeland authorities.
The death of these five women will never be forgotten by their families. The hurt continues long past the time when this story is no longer news.
What is so egregious is the very fact this vessel did certify for 10. It is one of the direct causes of the tragedy but it does NOT relieve the master of the vessel from responsibility. Not even partially. This is the foundation of maritime law. The master of the vessel carries the authority.
A master must take into account ALL circumstances. The age of the passengers, their physical condition, their level of experience in small boats, their ability to respond to instructions in the event of fire or any other emergency and their chances of successful using any life saving equipment from a life preserver to a raft. Before anyone comes aboard a captain should know how comfortable someone is in the water. Can they swim. Do they have experience in small boats.
Have they ever used a fire extinguisher. If Iím incapable, can they radio a mayday. This is just a partial list of questions you should ask Every person who boards your vessel. It is the responsibility of the captain to take into consideration the TOTALITY of circumstances.
To suggest or reference the capacity plaque as any form of legitimacy for number of passengers is ludicrous. It can never and should never be considered as a primary decision making factor. It was a manifestly unsafe voyage. Plain and simple. The weather and sea might have been calm but the water was ice cold.
Sperm whales, who have been documented biting whaling boats in two and then killing survivors with their tales, were present. The boat was smaller than the whales they set out to see. 60 year old bird watchers who gave this captain money for a fun day. They didnít have a clue about the dangers involved.
That was his responsibility. And he failed miserably.

The New Zeland authorities are not the only vessel inspectors who make mistakes. The dive boat tragedy in California is a good example of failures within the USCG system. Itís difficult to write a book for any inspection system. Stability is complex. Fires on vessels often result poor reactions from even well trained crews. Wind, waves, darkness, fatigue, the list is endless. Training helps. In the end, the vessel master must look at the potential for loss of control. What each and every thing can go wrong.
If the capacity plaque says 10 passengers, would that mean 9 children and one mom ? Of course not. That is why in case after case in maritime courts, the vessel master is held to a higher standard.
How many times on this forum has there been a poster who stated they had some experience but planned to take a six pack course so they could take passengers out for MONEY. Itís really sad people think a week or to will give them
sufficient knowledge to now become entrusted with the lives of others including children. The airline industry does a far better job of protecting passengers and every tragedy like this proves the failures of maritime passenger vessel regulation. Itís a national disgrace here and in other countries.
This accident will be investigated. Maybe the captains actions. Maybe something good will come of it. But the families who lost their loved ones will never get over it completely. The reason the manatee crew posts is simply the hope that one piece of advice, one note of caution, will help everyone realize the responsibility we have To Each Other at sea.
Captain Mark and his very sad manatee crew.
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