3 Dead, 5 Injured

[JPA Cate]

I wrote above that many of us don't want to think of ourselves as tattletales . I believe this is something we are taught as children, and tend to retain. However, Lodesman reiterated his notion that he thought that if the speedboat frequently was heard to be operating in an unsafe manner, that someone would have videoed it and said hypothetical video would have turned up. Maybe Lodesman is correct. Daytime videos are fairly commonly offered up as evidence of behavior. Both behaviors are available--tattling or not tattling. There were even night videos of the Dali's allision with the Francis Scott Bridge.

Where I'm at with this tragic event is stuck wondering whether the tinny was secured ashore or just out there floating around unlit? Unfortunately, I've never been in the situation of being on an inland lake at night, we were always back ashore by nightfall. I also am not local to the area, so I am not really aware of what the local practices may be. Whether being out there without lights is common or not. Local practices will undoubtedly have some exposure during the trial, and if being out there unlit is common practice, that's something that would be vulnerable to change.

Ann

[Jim Cate]

Are we forgetting (or ignoring) the testimony of the chap who said that he was listening to the sounds of the speed boat at high revs up to the point of the crash? Hearsay, yes, but at least reasonable assurance that the boat was travelling at his usual high speed.

And surprisingly, there has been no discussion of alcohol involvement so far. I suspect that at the end of a long day of boating this might well be a factor. I hope that appropriate measurements were made in a timely manner. Some years back there was a similar incident in California where a sheriff's deputy, driving a patrol boat at very high speed in the dark hit a slow moving sailboat and killed one of its crew. He avoided a breath test when his fellow officers arrived and escaped most consequences for his act. It was later learned that he had been in a saloon drinking heavily for some hours, just prior to the accident. A sad memory for many Californians...

And finally, yes, we DO motor at very slow speeds in our tender when returning to the boat at night.

Jim

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Are we forgetting (or ignoring) the testimony of the chap who said that he was listening to the sounds of the speed boat at high revs up to the point of the crash? Hearsay, yes, but at least reasonable assurance that the boat was travelling at his usual high speed.

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

...someone would have videoed it and said hypothetical video would have turned up

Yes... You can bet that both any 3rd-party testimony, and related video evidence, is in the hands of the police. Both would be indirect (circumstantial) evidence, but would serve to support, or refute, the direct evidence gathered at the event scene, and from the survivors.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

I wrote above that many of us don't want to think of ourselves as tattletales . I believe this is something we are taught as children, and tend to retain. However, Lodesman reiterated his notion that he thought that if the speedboat frequently was heard to be operating in an unsafe manner, that someone would have videoed it and said hypothetical video would have turned up.

It is my experience that law enforcement has zero interest in bad behavior by fast boats, whether it involves a wake hazard, violation of a speed limit, or simply unsafe behavior around smaller, slower boats.


It is time consuming and difficult to obtain convictions in these cases, penalties are minimal under the law, and it is outside the conservation/equipment safety remit under which most water patrols operate.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

You don't have to be going that fast to land on another boat. There are all sorts of docking fail videos that prove that.
Clearly he was going too fast to avoid a fatal collision. Would he have been able to avoid if the other vessel was properly lit?

Agreed. We don't know how fast the operator was going, but we do know it was too fast to avoid a fatal collision. In coastal waters this would be a COLREGs violation. I assume there are similar laws on the lakes.

Again we don't know that the throttle was all the way to the stops. But if we want to call BS, then I point to anyone saying they only go 4 kts just because it's dark out.

I don't recall anyone here claiming that. I was actually going to use the example of crossing the three-mile lake at three knots, to keep the math easy, but six seemed a more realistic example. It's certainly a speed I've reduced to many times. And I'm quite sure in some circumstances I've gone 3 knots, say, if I was in fog and unsure of what's around me.

Is it cold? Is it raining? Six knots isn't slow enough to necessarily avoid anything inconspicuous. You're travelling 10 ft/sec. 2-3 seconds reaction time means you have to spot it from 30 ft just from the cast of your navlights. At six kts you're not on plane, so you're plowing a bunch of water with your bow pointing up, further reducing your vis ahead.

Again, it was a hypothetical number, to contradict the claim that crossing a three-mile lake at a reduced speed is too inconvenient to bother considering the lives of those people you're putting at risk. And if your particular hull gives poor characteristics at six, then by all means, slow to five, or four. If you get wet, maybe you should have brought your fowlies. Being uncomfortable doesn't give you permission to put other lives in danger.

You would hope that if everyone was doing their part, there wouldn't be any collisions. That includes wearing lifejackets.

On this we're in total agreement. The rules are designed to avoid collisions, but also require prudent operation at all times, even when it conflicts with a rule. Again presumably lake rules (and common sense) require the same.

I will add that it's hard to see how a life jacket will protect you from getting crushed by a speeding boat landing on you. Whether the dead were wearing life jackets or not seems vey irrelevant. I'd hate to get involved in any victim-blaming.

[billyehh]

Well it is not that simple. Ornge ( the Ontario air ambulance company) would have to dispatch a helicopter from Ottawa, the nearest location. It is about 30 - 40 minute fight time to Bob's Lake. It would have to find a location to land. Not an easy thing at night in shield country. Around Bob's Lake is mainly forested. An ambulance would have get the patient to the landing area. Perth is about 20 miles away by air and Kingston is about 40 miles. Definitely more than a 5 minute flight though both hospitals have helipads. Probably an ambulance from Sharbot Lake to Kingston would be the fastest.

[SuW]

Originally Posted by DragonflyBob

We were on the ICW motoring at 6-7 knots from Pensacola, FL to The Wharf Marina in Gulf Shores, AL about 10 days ago on a Saturday. The stupidity shown by probably 25% of the powerboaters was astounding. To make it worse, there was a Poker Run happening and we had idiots in high speed center consoles and Scarab/Cigarette type boats buzzing past us at 50-70 mph 50-100 feet away. Scary!

Yep. When we were cruising the ICW, we concluded that we should anchor or moor somewhere protected every Saturday and Sunday and let the weekend warriors chase around. (The poor saps probably have to work during the week!)
Sometimes it was unavoidable, the bad wakes compensated for by occasional spectacular groundings from these antics, especially in S. Carolina and Georgia. Some places there the channels change after hurricanes, floods and because of strong currents.

The rule is less applicable November to March, perhaps.

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

hmm... I think we can take it for granted that "those who need to" have NOT been paying attention and will not be paying attention in the future!

Questions to which it would be nice to have answers are simple enough: Was the "tinny" showing the required light? Did the "speed boat" have any lights at all? What was the speed of the "speed boat" in the moments before impact? Did the drivers of the boats have the required Pleasure Craft Operator Card?

In brief: Did the person in charge of each boat act responsibly?

We will never know, because these sorts of accidents are so banal that "the press" will lose interest before the next sunset.

I cannot believe that there is anything to be learned from this incident that members of CF don't already know.

TrentePieds

I've almost been rear ended more than once by speed boats over loaded at night without lights.Amazes me how lax people get with their life when having a good time with friends and often full of weed.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by bfloyd4445

I've almost been rear ended more than once by speed boats over loaded at night without lights.Amazes me how lax people get with their life when having a good time with friends and often full of weed.

Likely why I stick to 5 or 6kts.. no Bludi weed..

[billyehh]

That rule doesn't apply in Canada. Can reasonably assume in this case that masthead and stern (or all-round white) are 2-nm and sidelights 1-nm.[/QUOTE]
Well according to Transport Canada all powered vessels over 3 metres in length or powered at 10hp or more must meet Collision Regulations.

[dmalcol1]

Both sailing vessels and power vessels must keep clear of any vessel they are overtaking.
You overtake a vessel when you approach it from behind within a 135-degree sector from the vessel’s stern.In this case this is power boats responsibility, percent of blame could decrease based on tiny boat action IE lights.

[gonesail]

i've seen boats making 60 mph .. in the pitch dark no lights. that to me kinda sums up power boating

[billyehh]

In the Global TV report it stated that the OPP (Ontario Provincial Police) had interviewed him on more than one occasion. You have to have proof to have a reasonable chance of conviction.

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Likely why I stick to 5 or 6kts.. no Bludi weed..

I was hit once at anchor with other vessels by a craft with no lights grossly overloaded and one girl would have drowned if i hadn't saved her. All were loaded. Vessels managed in this manner are deadly at any speed.

[ChrisPuget]

Anchoring at night has worried me that this type of accident could happen to me. It is not easy to protect yourself from irresponsible operators. They seem to be more prevelant in areas of small summer homes. I have a bright led masthead anchor light and I use three of this type of light hanging around the cockpit, backstay or shroud. Gives me a bit of comfort but no guarantees.

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