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Old 24-05-2024, 08:47   #31
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Re: 3 Dead, 5 Injured

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I would be interested to know how many of you have reported reckless behavior by a boater and gotten any traction on that. My impression and assumption is that unless there is an accident, they authorities just can't be bothered with it.
Part of the challenge is also the evidentiary standard. Unless the police officer has directly observed the infraction, they are relying on third-party testimony. This makes it a lot harder to meet the "beyond reasonable doubt" threshold -- as it should be!

In an actual accident situation, the evidence is usually more clear.
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Old 24-05-2024, 08:51   #32
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Re: 3 Dead, 5 Injured

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I assume it's been determined, but I haven't seen a specific position reported by officials. I was quoting the eyewitness reports:
I think anyone who's ever been involved in an investigation knows that eyewitness reports are always somewhat suspect, and almost always carry bias. I saw one news report that stated the speed limit on the lake as being 10 km/h - that is 5 knots. It's also verifiably false, but the news ain't always that reliable either.

Quote:
"The speed limit for boats in that area of Bobs Lake is 10 kilometres per hour, but neighbours say the limit is often ignored."
"That area" where the speed is limited is 200m long - it is just the approach and exit under a narrow bridge (Green Bay Rd).

There's also a standing limit of 10km/h within 30m of the shore on most lakes in Canada, but there's no indication this happened that close to shore either.
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Old 24-05-2024, 17:01   #33
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Re: 3 Dead, 5 Injured

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I would be interested to know how many of you have reported reckless behavior by a boater and gotten any traction on that. My impression and assumption is that unless there is an accident, they authorities just can't be bothered with it.
I've reported things a couple of times and the CG made a note of it in case anyone else reported damage or anything related. But they indicated that if there was no damage or injuries then they can't do anything about it unless they saw it happen.
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Old 24-05-2024, 18:50   #34
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Re: 3 Dead, 5 Injured

If you watched the link Mike O Reilly posted, it appeared to me that the people on the news were treating the event like an opportunity to plug for boating safety in the area. Seems like a good idea, since the skipper of the speedboat was known to hoon around with the boat, and people felt impotent to do anything constructive about it.

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Old 25-05-2024, 00:42   #35
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Re: 3 Dead, 5 Injured

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All that and you've seem to have forgotten a major tenet of our legal system - presumption of innocence until guilt is proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
3 dead, 5 injured in a two boat collision an hour after sunset seems someone is guilty beyond reasonable doubt. How much doubt is needed to become unreasonable?
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Old 25-05-2024, 03:32   #36
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pirate Re: 3 Dead, 5 Injured

Agreed.. also the fact that the speedboat has mounted the fishing boat to the extent it has indicates at least 20kts.
To fast for safe navigation in the dark.
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Old 25-05-2024, 05:35   #37
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Re: 3 Dead, 5 Injured

It's clear that someone screwed up. But the nature of the mistakes and who caused them aren't perfectly clear.

I had a bit of a scare in the dinghy last year. Putting along at 4 kts in the dark (with lights). Came across a pair of jet skis (no lights) idling home because they stayed too late at the bar and it got dark. They were going slow enough I couldn't hear them over the outboard until we were very close and we were within 100 feet before I could see them.
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Old 25-05-2024, 05:54   #38
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pirate Re: 3 Dead, 5 Injured

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It's clear that someone screwed up. But the nature of the mistakes and who caused them aren't perfectly clear.

I had a bit of a scare in the dinghy last year. Putting along at 4 kts in the dark (with lights). Came across a pair of jet skis (no lights) idling home because they stayed too late at the bar and it got dark. They were going slow enough I couldn't hear them over the outboard until we were very close and we were within 100 feet before I could see them.
Don't believe you.. Jet bikers aren't that sensible..
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Old 25-05-2024, 06:04   #39
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Re: 3 Dead, 5 Injured

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Don't believe you.. Jet bikers aren't that sensible..
I was absolutely shocked when I saw it. It was pretty clear they knew they had screwed up and shouldn't be out there but just wanted to get home.
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Old 25-05-2024, 06:09   #40
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Re: 3 Dead, 5 Injured

I know I've got my skivvies in a twist over this one, but in my book, blasting along at 22 knots (or whatever it might have been) on a dark lake in cottage country ain't "screwing up"! It is willful disregard for the safety of others. In cottage country people SWIM in the lakes even after dark!! Sometimes with a bellyful of beer.

"Screwing up", i.e. having an accident, can happen to any one of us, but we don't have "accidents" such as this because we employ foresight and common sense, and we are cognizant of every civilized man's duty to refrain from activities that put fellow men and women in danger.

And that comment isn't sexist at all - women don't drive "go fast" boats because they aren't rendered heedless by a surfeit of testosterone!

All the palaver about how the legal system works only becomes relevant when someone fails in that duty. As Ann said, the news reports all spoke to the need to act responsibly. We have no means (short of incarceration) of ensuring that that speed boat driver never drives any kind of boat again. But I wish we did!

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Old 25-05-2024, 06:28   #41
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Re: 3 Dead, 5 Injured

Well, here is a jetski story for you:

I was sitting on the launching ramp at Green Lake with my beloved pooch, Kara. 220lbs of Old English Mastiff. I was tired after we had been playing "stick" with a six-foot log. On the lake was a jetski doing figure eights and jumping over her own wake. On the pillion was a girl, may eight years old, crying and screaming in fear.

The machine came ashore and the little girl, crying, ran for her towel further down the beach. The driver, a man, stood there. Kara loped over to him, stopped four feet in front of him and dropped her huge head into the threat pose. She GROWLED, ready to pounce, gave one resounding WOOOF!, turned around and came back to me.

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Old 25-05-2024, 06:44   #42
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Re: 3 Dead, 5 Injured

Latest local news report I read said the on-site investigation has wrapped up. Police were still asking anyone with eyewitness reports, and especially any video of the area even hours before the incident, to come forward.

No new details were officially released.
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Old 25-05-2024, 06:52   #43
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Re: 3 Dead, 5 Injured

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3 dead, 5 injured in a two boat collision an hour after sunset seems someone is guilty beyond reasonable doubt. How much doubt is needed to become unreasonable?
Which "someone"? Without knowing if either boat had its lights on, it's pretty difficult to assign blame, isn't it?
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Old 25-05-2024, 07:02   #44
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Re: 3 Dead, 5 Injured

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Agreed.. also the fact that the speedboat has mounted the fishing boat to the extent it has indicates at least 20kts.
To fast for safe navigation in the dark.
See, I was thinking the opposite. I think if the speedboat had been going that fast, it would have gone right over the other boat or flipped over.
But I'm not an accident reconstructionist. The OPP are apparently doing that work - I don't know if they have a special marine accident group or if it's their highway accident boffins they're calling in.

Digging into your "too fast" comment - what's an acceptable speed in your mind, in open water, no charted obstructions, where there is no visibility-obscuring phenomena and other vessels should be lit?
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Old 25-05-2024, 07:13   #45
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Re: 3 Dead, 5 Injured

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I know I've got my skivvies in a twist over this one, but in my book, blasting along at 22 knots (or whatever it might have been) on a dark lake in cottage country ain't "screwing up"! It is willful disregard for the safety of others. In cottage country people SWIM in the lakes even after dark!! Sometimes with a bellyful of beer.

TP
Maybe you should stop making up speeds or any assumptions at all. The OPP will likely work out roughly how fast he was going; which may make your pronouncements moot.
Most people wouldn't swim into the middle of a boating lake in the dark - even with a belly full of beer, they'll tend to stick close to shore. As I said before there is a speed limit within 30m of shore in Ontario. Anyone doing otherwise is vying for a Darwin award.

Quote:
And that comment isn't sexist at all - women don't drive "go fast" boats because they aren't rendered heedless by a surfeit of testosterone!
This comment isn't just sexist, it's wrong. Like your veiled reference to the O'Leary case. Women drive boats. At my inlaws' cottage, it's my MIL that drives the ski-boat. It's her boat! I don't think FIL has even been in the boat, let alone drove it.
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