Want To Buy: WTB: 40-50' Queen aft cabin blue water cruiser

[JonJG]

You should look seriously at a Wauquiez Pilot Saloon 40 or 43. May need to go a little higher for a good example. If you want less comfort (though still very good) and more speed then consider a Centurion. The 45S is fast but you lose the queen bed and aft master cabin. At your price range the slightly older Amphrite and Amphoras or earlier Centurions may deliver what you want - though all boats are a compromise on the wish list. At the end of the day we can prioritise but mostly we consumers finally buy through an emotional response, despite the aspects that don't tick the list of requirements. Designers know this and try to build in connection into their designs / products. Good Luck in your quest.

[dryan]

You couldn't go better than a Passport but the cheapest I can see is about $130,00 for a 40 ft. The 51 would be the ideal boat to live on but not cheap.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by ohdrinkboy

Finding all of your wants in a $100k budget will be a big challenge. Under 20yrs old is nearly impossible. What do you mean by blue water? Are you looking to island hop the bahamas/caribbean? If so, any production boat in good condition will do.

Good luck.

I was all set with your perfect boat but then saw the second millenium start point.

Any Morgan 46 (461/2/3) - after an appropriate refit - would entirely meet your definition, and be RTW capable (several examples I personally know of).

However, the last one built was 1984 (mine was the second, in August 78).

Standard aft berth was landside double; many have done alterations back there. We have extended it 8" and built a storage bin under the extension, a step up to meet our 8" tempur-pedic clones.

Here's a link to a view (with some personal stuff, too) of our boat before some other upgrades:

Pictures: Flying Pig Interiors

Here's some detailed info on the type - there are some up-close-and-personal ones, but the generic info is in the brochures and the like segment:

Pictures: Morgan 46 Info

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by skipgundlach

I was all set with your perfect boat but then saw the second millenium start point.

Any Morgan 46 (461/2/3) - after an appropriate refit - would entirely meet your definition, and be RTW capable (several examples I personally know of).

However, the last one built was 1984 (mine was the second, in August 78).

Standard aft berth was landside double; many have done alterations back there. We have extended it 8" and built a storage bin under the extension, a step up to meet our 8" tempur-pedic clones.

Here's a link to a view (with some personal stuff, too) of our boat before some other upgrades:

Pictures: Flying Pig Interiors

Here's some detailed info on the type - there are some up-close-and-personal ones, but the generic info is in the brochures and the like segment:

Pictures: Morgan 46 Info

Indeed a very good choice. But over that, really impressed with how much love and attention to details has been invested in your boat! Great great job!

[skipgundlach]

PS WRT Morgan 46x:

There's a Facebook page on the type; open so you're welcome to come look around:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/morg...?ref=bookmarks

If you want to see every inch, inside and out, you can see everything we've done to ours up to a few years ago (have very little computer time allotted by the admiral, so my uploading and new folders is behind schedule), here:

Web-Folio -- Your Portfolio on the Web

The 461s have more than a ton more fiberglass than the 462/3 do, being actually a Moorings 46 built to accommodate cruisers running into things in the BVIs...

[dlane1181]

Sunwards 48s are great blue water cruisers, and rare finds. I have no affiliation with this vessel, except that I also own and live aboard a Sunward 48.
https://www.denisonyachtsales.com/yachts-for-sale/48-Sparkman--Stephens-Fort-Pierce/266043-yc

[Mr. Rompers]

How about a Cascade '42 high side? Aft cabin newly refit with all new gear updated and upgraded.

[capnorv]

I gotta stand up for Hardin Voyager 45' center cockpit, aft queen cabin, tons of room and stowage, not the fastest but it can get out of its own way, 5 1/2 or 6' draft, full keel, slow motion and comfortable. 130 were made, and they've been most places. Another sturdy boat would be a westsail 42', both these can be had under $100000. Kick up the ante a little more and a Norseman 447 would get my vote. Myself, we have a Hardin and love it.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Coconuts333

My wife and I are looking for a 40-50ish foot fiberglass hull blue water cruiser. She prefers the queen aft cabin for a live-aboard. We have looked at several Irwin 40's, a Morgan Marek, and Stamas 44 and are considering one. We like the looks of a Gulfstar but have not seen one in person. Any other suggestions or boats for sale on the forum? We have only started our research and are open to suggestions and advice due to the large number of boats available. Its hard to research them all and could use some free advice.
we are looking for something more sail ready and not a fixer upper as we are retired and desire to sail sooner than later. Our budget is around 100K depending on condition, electronics, and amenities. Ideally, we would like AC, water maker, nice galley, fridge/freezer, hot water heater, washing machine, furling jib, self tailing winches, cockpit control, but none of these are a must. We are located in Texas.
Look forward to visiting with everyone!

Look at Brewer 42 s -there are some around

[Coconuts333]

I greatly appreciate all the excellent suggestions however, there are a couple boats that I know nothing about and would like some advice as far as aft cabin live aboard. Can you guys give me some advice as far as the quality, durability and sailing of a Morgan, Brewer. Sunward, cascade, Hardin or Norseman? I’m not trying to start an adversarial forum discussion but have to rely on people who have more wisdom regarding boats that I know nothing about… Thanks!

[skipgundlach]

My M461 sails very comfortably in 40 knots if you reef her properly.

A staysail conversion, and with a storm staysail, too, if it got really gnarly, or merely a triple reefed main alone, they are fine in heavy weather.

Light weather, too, as our favorite times are under the asym which came with her when we bought her.

Sails close to the wind, too, if you trim her properly; we were approaching Green Turtle Cay on a close reach, once, and to get into the harbor we tightened up to a close beat; an observer said that he didn't think these could point that high!

It helps that we have the deep keel (all 461s are DWL@6' but most had that raised at least once in their lives), and that we keep our trim such that we are rarely further over than 15 degrees; our norm for either trim or shortening is 10 degrees.

As to quality, like any boat model, there are gotchas possible (though most will have been attended to by prior owners if they aren't essentially new boats. The retail versions are mostly ketch and the step was challenging to think of what must have been in the mind of the designer, as it's on the aft sole, and insufficiently reinforced, causing all too eventually sag badly.

Great liveaboards, and if not majorly remodeled (most have been), able to comfortably sleep LOTS of folks (461 was a Moorings 46; it was set up for up to 11 if properly distributed, all with ample space; 462s usually didn't have quite so many berths!).

Lots more on the Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/groups/morg...?ref=bookmarks

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by Coconuts333

I greatly appreciate all the excellent suggestions however, there are a couple boats that I know nothing about and would like some advice as far as aft cabin live aboard. Can you guys give me some advice as far as the quality, durability and sailing of a Morgan, Brewer. Sunward, cascade, Hardin or Norseman? I’m not trying to start an adversarial forum discussion but have to rely on people who have more wisdom regarding boats that I know nothing about… Thanks!

I sort of skipped over the durability part...

Our surveyor (for two, one each 461/2) had been the quality control and service manager for Morgan during the entire production run of this model.

He had also worked for various other manufacturers in the area over many years; he said that Morgan built the stoutest production boats of the time, and the 46 line was the stoutest of them all.

He went on to say that the Moorings (461) was the stoutest 46x; it has over one more ton of fiberglass than the 462. Our version of it pounded on the starboard side for 3 days, in 8-10' surf, on a flat shelf off Content Key - that at normal low tide was dry, so it was pretty hard - and the only water that got into the boat was from a transducer which had had the mushroom exterior break on the bouncing, allowing a seep in via the core of the transducer which stayed in place. On recovery its own bilge pumps quickly spat out the water. Recovery was a matter of removing all the damaged glass and putting more on. No holes.

(story here if you're morbidly interested: Pictures: Flying Pig Is Aloft - The Adventure Begins)


If you can find a well-found 461, it will be massively stout...

[Hillbillybuddha]

Cascades were the very first fiberglass boats. Well, technically it was a smaller boat in the Cascade line called the Chinook. Back then, they really didn't know much about fiberglass so they really overdid the layup. People throw around the term "bullet proof" a lot but these hulls literally are. Part of their marketing strategy was to shoot a .45 at a hull and the slugs would bounce off. Most fiberglass hulls for the 60s, 70s and 80s were made with 6 layers of chopped strand mat, and made with 70% or more resin. Cascades were made with a minimum of 12 layers of woven raovings heavy weight fiberglass with only 50% resin which is why Cascades don't have a lot of osmosis issues.

The Cascade was designed by Robert A. Smith. He was a designer with Sparkman and Stephens. And were designed to be world travelers. A book I came across recently (I'll find the title because it's escaping me right now) tells the story of a man renting a Cascade 42 HS from Yacht Constructors Inc (the builders of the Cascade) and sailing it from Portland to Anchorage, Alaska, across the Bering Straight, down to Hawaii and back to Portland before ordering his own Cascade. My Cascade has been to Hawaii a few times and across the Panama Canal 6 times.

And they are fast and sturdy with a 6 ft 4 inch draft Fin keel with a bulb and a skag hung rudder.

The problem that some people have with the Cascades is they were sold unfinished (or as a kit.) They came as a hull, keel, deck, mast, rigging, head, motor and v-birth. So the final interior design was up to the owner. I've heard that there's a lot of variety in the interiors with some of lower quality. I've been in a few and I can attest to the difference but I've never seen one that I would consider "lower quality" I think this is because, even unfinished, these were not inexpensive boats, so most owners would hire a local boatyard to finish the work.

My Cascade is my favorite boat I've ever owned and it was the first boat that made my wife say she'd take both her feet off the dock and liveaboard full time. We are selling our house as we speak to move aboard. I should mention that my wife really dislikes the "fancier" boats. We looked at a few beneteaus before we bought our Cascade and she they all looked like plastic condominiums. They were nice but they didn't have any more personality than a nice RV. If that's what you are looking for, the Cascade might not be for you.

Now for a few things I will be fixing on her. Her aluminum toe rail is a weak link. Mine is showing some deterioration and replacing it is no small undertaking. Luckily, mine has not caused any leaking. When i get around to replacing it, I think I'll replace it with teak. Also, the standing rigging on the Cascade Ketch design is right were you board so I think I'm going to move the opening aft to avoid the shrouds. And my cascade only came with one hatch which means it can get kinda stuffy down below. I'm getting ready to replace all the rigging, when I do that, I'm going to add a couple more hatches.

I've seen a few for sale recently for $30k to $50k. Which means you'll be way below budget and can spend more on sailing

If you have any questions, please ask.

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by Coconuts333

I greatly appreciate all the excellent suggestions however, there are a couple boats that I know nothing about and would like some advice as far as aft cabin live aboard. Can you guys give me some advice as far as the quality, durability and sailing of a Morgan, Brewer. Sunward, cascade, Hardin or Norseman? I’m not trying to start an adversarial forum discussion but have to rely on people who have more wisdom regarding boats that I know nothing about… Thanks!

Sailing? Speaking for Morgan my 44ft (1986 Nelson Marek centre cockpit) on a passage typically to Fiji and back, she routinely provides daily runs of 165nm. Our expectation for the 1100nm trip is not more than 7 days and we’re rarely disappointed. That said, we choose our weather windows carefully and will deviate from the rhumb line quite a bit to save beating. Centre cockpits are notoriously wet boats when sailed on the wind.

Durability? I have posted on this board more than once of a storm we weathered between Rarotonga and NZ where we experienced 85kn/40ft and the only thing that broke on the boat was the cockpit canopy which got carried away into the sea at 80kn. My wife, who is ordinarily easily frightened in serious weather often says that the one thing she never doubts is that the boat will look after us.

Quality? Well many would say it’s not a HR or a Moody but then one should probably more speak to “value for money” than quality. We think our boat has all the quality we paid for and then some.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

Sailing? Speaking for Morgan my 44ft (1986 Nelson Marek centre cockpit)

(clip).

Just a note for clarity: Any Morgan built after mid-1984 (1985 models and later) were built by Catalina, who bought the remains after the bankruptcy.

Catalina introduced the Morgan Classic, their version of the OI41, which has the lines, but is an altogether different boat than the ones built by Morgan Yachts, e.g.