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Old 24-04-2022, 14:41   #31
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Re: Special Blue Water Cruiser Ready To Take You Anywhere You Want

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I am beginning to wonder if there are any left out there with a spirit of adventure to see a whole different world they didn't know existed.
I don't know about that, but I'm quite sure there are many, new to sailing, without ocean experience, who wouldn't realize how workable, safe, and comfortable the design of the boat is. Also, lack of disposable income is a problem for many young people.

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Old 26-04-2022, 21:39   #32
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Re: Special Blue Water Cruiser Ready To Take You Anywhere You Want

Hi, thanks for your reply and observations. You are undoubtedly correct. It seems every generation struggles, but it is getting more difficult over time. My wife and I both sacrificed our careers to make our cruising thing happen. In retrospect it was one of our best decisions in life to go cruising. And now we had hoped to pass MIRAGE onto a cruising couple to realize their dreams but doesn't look like that will happen. I will leave you with the questions most cruisers should think about which is when the rogue wave hits you, would you rather be on your boat or 2 feet above sea level in a big city with more hurricanes to come?? Life eventually takes you out no matter where you find yourself. Thanks for being a moderator, it is people like yourself that makes the world a better place and this website a valuable resource. Thanks Myles and Sandy PS In all our cruising we have never found anyone who has more fun and enjoys life like the Aussies. Keep making that great Ginger Beer!!
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Old 29-04-2022, 09:39   #33
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Re: Special Blue Water Cruiser Ready To Take You Anywhere You Want

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If it doesn't sell on this cruiser net soon we will let our broker relist on YACHTWORLD for $120K. I am surprised not a single cruising couple has checked it out, but I am beginning to wonder if there are any left out there with a spirit of adventure to see a whole different world they didn't know existed. Thanks Myles and Sandy
Here's some cold water:

There's plenty of us out here. Anyone with enough disposable income and savings to spend $75k - $120k USD on a luxury like an offshore vessel is not buying a vessel which is 43 years old: because no matter how well maintained it is there will be refit costs - and it is becoming prohibitive if not impossible to obtain insurance other than liability for vessels over twenty years old. They are buying something much newer.

For everyone else, particularly those of us younger than retirement age who have enjoyed two economic recessions in their prime working years as well as the highest rate of income inequality and cost of living increases since the great depression: why would we spend 5+ years of sailing budget on the boat when there are dozens of perfectly functional vessels of a similar age for $30k or less out there which - even after a refit - will still not approach the high five figures. Ones with a better SA/D than 15. It is an unfortunate reflection of the times that anyone with the sailing knowledge and "spirit of adventure" to actually use your boat, likely does not have the budget to buy it.

This isn't the 1980's, the market of people who can afford to put a boat like this to proper use is increasingly tiny, and from the wording of ads now showing up on used sites the vintage market is about to be swamped by those dreamers who purchased a liability in 2020 and have discovered they can't afford to keep it at all. Throwing out that you're going to raise the price by 40% after months without success just sounds like you are out of touch, if not desperate to offload this boat, because in reality if you can't sell something you keep dropping the price until you find a buyer. A Kaiser Gale Force is a nice boat, but it is not a unique boat, nor is it a model with a cult following.

IMO, sellers need to realize that if you sit on something you're trying to sell for long enough, the cost of maintaining it in the interim will ultimately equal the loss you would have eaten by just reducing the price to where you find a buyer in the first place. Moorage in the PNW isn't cheap, if you can even find a marina in the first place these days - I know waiting lists up here in BC are 14+ months anywhere on the coast nowadays.

You can keep waiting for a mythical sailing couple with incredibly deep pockets and a love for vintage boats who are ready to jump in the ocean and take off across the pacific right now, but please don't cast shade on the rest of us when they don't materialize at your asking price.
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Old 29-04-2022, 10:20   #34
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Re: Special Blue Water Cruiser Ready To Take You Anywhere You Want

Don't listen to the naysayers who claim there is no market for Mirage. There will be plenty of potential buyers who are looking for this type of design. One simply cannot find a relatively new boat, for a reasonable price, that isn't a copy of the B's, J's or H's. These buyers are willing to deal with having to replace aging equipment. They are willing to sail a bit slower and heaven knows they only need one steering wheel. And most of them will have cash.

Mirage sounds like a wonderful boat. If I was looking I'd be very interested.
I think you do need to be more realistic on pricing. Spend some time and look at comps to get a better idea of asking price for boats in the same size range and age. And if he is not getting calls, fire your broker.
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Old 29-04-2022, 10:52   #35
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Re: Special Blue Water Cruiser Ready To Take You Anywhere You Want

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Don't listen to the naysayers who claim there is no market for Mirage. There will be plenty of potential buyers who are looking for this type of design.
There is a "market" for anything. But if you can not find a buyer then the price is too much for the "market"
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Old 29-04-2022, 12:21   #36
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Re: Special Blue Water Cruiser Ready To Take You Anywhere You Want

We now live in a world of McDonald's, Amazon, and Harbor Freight buyers. It’s more difficult to find discerning buyers. That said, most potential buyers aren’t shopping here, they are on YW first, then the other sale sites.
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Old 29-04-2022, 12:30   #37
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Re: Special Blue Water Cruiser Ready To Take You Anywhere You Want

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We now live in a world of McDonald's, Amazon, and Harbor Freight buyers. It’s more difficult to find discerning buyers. That said, most potential buyers aren’t shopping here, they are on YW first, then the other sale sites.
This is exactly correct. The seller here is a great boat guy. He has a nice boat. But he’s not a marketing guy. He needs to put on a marketing hat.

I always post boats I sell on this forum. Nothing ever comes of it. I do it as a courtesy more than anything else. Just in case somebody I know here wants to beat the general market to my boat.

The problem with selling boats on the cruisers forum is that you’re trying to sell boats to people who already have boats. That’s lousy marketing.

People who are looking for boats are on sailboatlistings.com, yacht world, boats.com. Sites like that. That’s where you need to put your boat.

Put your boat on those sites, price it less than every other comparable boat and sell the thing. That’s how you move a boat.
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Old 29-04-2022, 15:16   #38
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Re: Special Blue Water Cruiser Ready To Take You Anywhere You Want

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Originally Posted by Raincoast View Post
Here's some cold water:

There's plenty of us out here. Anyone with enough disposable income and savings to spend $75k - $120k USD on a luxury like an offshore vessel is not buying a vessel which is 43 years old: because no matter how well maintained it is there will be refit costs - and it is becoming prohibitive if not impossible to obtain insurance other than liability for vessels over twenty years old. They are buying something much newer.

For everyone else, particularly those of us younger than retirement age who have enjoyed two economic recessions in their prime working years as well as the highest rate of income inequality and cost of living increases since the great depression: why would we spend 5+ years of sailing budget on the boat when there are dozens of perfectly functional vessels of a similar age for $30k or less out there which - even after a refit - will still not approach the high five figures. Ones with a better SA/D than 15. It is an unfortunate reflection of the times that anyone with the sailing knowledge and "spirit of adventure" to actually use your boat, likely does not have the budget to buy it.

This isn't the 1980's, the market of people who can afford to put a boat like this to proper use is increasingly tiny, and from the wording of ads now showing up on used sites the vintage market is about to be swamped by those dreamers who purchased a liability in 2020 and have discovered they can't afford to keep it at all. Throwing out that you're going to raise the price by 40% after months without success just sounds like you are out of touch, if not desperate to offload this boat, because in reality if you can't sell something you keep dropping the price until you find a buyer. A Kaiser Gale Force is a nice boat, but it is not a unique boat, nor is it a model with a cult following.

IMO, sellers need to realize that if you sit on something you're trying to sell for long enough, the cost of maintaining it in the interim will ultimately equal the loss you would have eaten by just reducing the price to where you find a buyer in the first place. Moorage in the PNW isn't cheap, if you can even find a marina in the first place these days - I know waiting lists up here in BC are 14+ months anywhere on the coast nowadays.

You can keep waiting for a mythical sailing couple with incredibly deep pockets and a love for vintage boats who are ready to jump in the ocean and take off across the pacific right now, but please don't cast shade on the rest of us when they don't materialize at your asking price.
lighten up Francis....
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Old 29-04-2022, 17:54   #39
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Re: Special Blue Water Cruiser Ready To Take You Anywhere You Want

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MIRAGE is Priced reduced today to $71,000. Thanks Myles and Sandy
Ignore the uneducated advice from those who say there is no market for your boat. Such designs are excellent for their intended use, and cannot be bought new today without paying 4x as much. There are knowledgeable sailors around who are looking for a boat like yours. But you do need to be very realistic about the price. Your latest asking price is now getting into a competitive range - but do expect to negotiate.
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Old 29-04-2022, 20:45   #40
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Re: Special Blue Water Cruiser Ready To Take You Anywhere You Want

It looks pretty much like what I'm looking for/dreaming of finding. Solid. Long integral keel. Sensible layout. But baring that elusive lottery win I don't have the money and never will. Also not young and on the other side of an ocean and a continent.
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Old 29-04-2022, 21:28   #41
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Re: Special Blue Water Cruiser Ready To Take You Anywhere You Want

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Originally Posted by Raincoast View Post
Here's some cold water:

There's plenty of us out here. Anyone with enough disposable income and savings to spend $75k - $120k USD on a luxury like an offshore vessel is not buying a vessel which is 43 years old: because no matter how well maintained it is there will be refit costs - and it is becoming prohibitive if not impossible to obtain insurance other than liability for vessels over twenty years old. They are buying something much newer.
I think the reality is the "snippy generation" doesn't know which end of a screwdriver to pick up. It has become painfully apparent (mostly through "dreamer" forms like this) that the sense of reality as to what is quality and what is not has been lost in the waves and winds of boat show broker blather, convincing the uneducated that the thin fiberglassed, home Depot hardware is the way to go. My suggestion is that you cancel all your glittery magazines that tell you what the "boat of the year" is.
Besides...the guy is trying to sell a boat...give him a break why dontcha.
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Old 30-04-2022, 03:08   #42
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Special Blue Water Cruiser Ready To Take You Anywhere You Want

I humbly would suggest the market at that price for a boat that old is very specialised. Is it out there ? , who knows. It may take a long time to find the buyer with a non mainstream perspective , the OP will have to patient. This will not be a quick sale.

The fact is sailing boats thatís are not tied down are selling , mobos are taking much much longer round here.

Secondly people in general want modern , they buy modern cars , modern houses and apartments and their boat choices will be no different

The reality is that modern production yachts are of sufficient build quality and robustness to satisfy many if not all purchasers. Itís a very small niche of specialised buyers that want something different , very few people are looking to buy ď expedition ď yachts etc.

I friend of mine bid recently on a big , well known semi custom exploration style yacht recently , it went for 30 % below asking , because the market is ď soft ď at this rarified end. Buyers are much thinner on the ground.

Whereas in the standard production yachts boats in the 15 years and younger are flying of the shelves.

As was pointed out a 40 year old boat will remove tons of buyers from the potential sale. Itís just the way it is.

remember the value of a boat is what a buyer will pay , not what you think itís worth.
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Old 30-04-2022, 05:39   #43
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Re: Special Blue Water Cruiser Ready To Take You Anywhere You Want

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The three people who have seen it called it awesome, outstanding, and wonderful with three full price offers.
Why isn't it sold then?
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Old 30-04-2022, 06:51   #44
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Re: Special Blue Water Cruiser Ready To Take You Anywhere You Want

FWIW this looks like a beautiful well-maintained boat that is right in line with what I would eventually want; I look at Westsail 32s, Tayana 37s, Babas, etc. as the kind of boat I would trust to take me Out There.
Unfortunately, Iím a good five years of education, experience, and finding out just how much my spouse actually enjoys long-distance boat travel from being in the market.
The fact that Iím already struggling to get insurance for my current boat that is almost a decade newer than yours does give me pause. Iíve got maybe ten grand sunk into a Catalina 25 between purchase price and refit; losing her to some accident or mistake and only having liability coverage would be incredibly sad but wouldnít put an end to my project. Losing a boat like this with no way to recoup the investment would return me to the ranks of the landlubber dreamers for sure.
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Old 30-04-2022, 08:53   #45
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Re: Special Blue Water Cruiser Ready To Take You Anywhere You Want

Hi Rainforest and all the others responding to my thread here. Americans are real workaholics(I'm in that category myself) and aren't out there(Blue Water) having fun for the first time in their lives. Aussies, Kiwis, Canadians, etc. seem more willing to take chances and leave the future to take care of itself. Cruisers have each others back and the international community is like nothing you will ever experience. And yes I'm painfully aware of the difficult economy for the last 40 years. I wouldn't insure an older boat these days. Also I wouldn't pay $700K for the boat I have now. MIRAGE would have been long gone except for plain bad luck. I spent over $100K to ship it from New Zealand and refit it so when I was a younger man (75 years) we could add groceries and take off for 4 months to go see Alaska and British Columbia. I worked till I was 70 so I could afford it. I would just like someone who will appreciate it to buy it. We are very flexible on price but don't need a lot of hassle at our age. If we had chartered every place we have been, it would have been millions of dollars, so if I didn't get a dime for the boat I would not have room to gripe. Thanks for the input and best of luck to all of you in your endeavors. Myles and Sandy
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