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Old 31-07-2022, 23:13   #1
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Four Cabin Catamaran

First, let me begin by saying that I'm fully aware of how unrealistic the following request is, but I also believe that you never know what opportunities might present themselves simply by asking for the moon and being in the right place at the right time.

My wife and I are very interested in one of the charter-style catamarans with the four cabin layout as a liveaboard. We have kids and would love to be able to give each of them a space of their own. Wasting $2k per month for a rundown three bedroom apartment is just gnawing at us when we could be paying that much or less for an "apartment on the water". I'd much rather invest in a depreciating asset than one that will never be mine at all.

The catch is that we aren't in a position to get a traditional boat loan, hence the unrealistic part. We would need some kind of owner financing. The payments aren't a problem given what we're used to paying for rent, and we would be able to save up through the year for all the maintenance outside of that. It's just the loan part that puts up a wall.

We'd love to find a boat that maybe is in rough shape and the owner just doesn't have the time or money to fix it up. Perhaps a solid hull and mostly working motor and sails and rigging on their last legs. Not a "lost cause" or anything, but something that your average buyer probably doesn't want and the owner is open to more unconventional options.

So yeah, that's the dream...hopefully there's some way it can become a reality. Thanks for listening!
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Old 02-08-2022, 21:12   #2
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Re: Four Cabin Catamaran

Yes, no harm in asking.

It may help if you indicate how much is available for downpayment, and any idea on overall spend you budget for?
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Old 02-08-2022, 22:18   #3
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Re: Four Cabin Catamaran

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Originally Posted by Gerrit Coetzee View Post
Yes, no harm in asking.

It may help if you indicate how much is available for downpayment, and any idea on overall spend you budget for?
Well, my answer to that question is one I imagine falls into a category that irritates most boat owners. I actually have pretty good credit, but it's the huge down payments that boat loans require that make it difficult to secure a traditional loan. Even just 20% of a $250k boat is $50k, which is hard to save up for that when you're having to pay through the nose for housing and fuel and all the other things here in SoCal, and we haven't been able to relocate for various reasons I won't get into here. Our overall monthly budget is enough that we can definitely afford a reasonably priced boat once we don't have the massive rent payment and expensive utilities and some other things we'll end up doing without. It's just that massive first hurdle with all the other things we have to pay for.

We can come up with several thousand for a down payment once we get our tax return next year, and our budget is more based on monthly payment rather than overall boat value...mostly because we're not figuring on a nice $500k boat. Really trying to find something that's somewhat beat up and more toward a reasonable non-SoCal house value and we can spend a few years fixing it up with all that extra money we'll have. We figure if we can get payments between $1000-1500 per month, that still leaves us $500 per month just from our current rent budget to save up for things like bottom paint and other maintenance items, and then we'll take some of the other things we're used to paying for and add it to the maintenance budget and it should be a pretty reasonable allocation of funds to get the boat fixed up and ready to go. We also have some creative solutions for avoiding staying in a marina (SoCal prices again), so hopefully that will be a huge expense we won't have to deal with.

So, aside from the sob story you didn't want to hear (lol), I'm figuring an older, not so nice boat in the (hopefully much) less than $300k range at maybe $1500 per month...something like that.

Obviously, finding someone who is willing to finance out their boat for that much and for the amount of time that would take to pay off is nearly impossible to find, but as we said it never hurts to ask. Unicorns do exist, and you never know if there is someone out there who just needs to get rid of our dream boat quick.

Thanks!
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Old 03-08-2022, 00:17   #4
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Re: Four Cabin Catamaran

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/2...ll-40-7443895/
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Old 03-08-2022, 01:32   #5
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Re: Four Cabin Catamaran

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Originally Posted by silviris View Post
Wasting $2k per month for a rundown three bedroom apartment is just gnawing at us when we could be paying that much or less for an "apartment on the water". I'd much rather invest in a depreciating asset than one that will never be mine at all.
So yeah, that's the dream...hopefully there's some way it can become a reality. Thanks for listening!
do you forget slip fee. maintain, insurance here is slip price for mono

https://www.cvmarina.com/amenities-s...ee-comparison/

i think is better for you RV . possible find trailer park spot for only 800-1000$ month + electric,water,tax
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Old 03-08-2022, 09:32   #6
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Re: Four Cabin Catamaran

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That looks like a pretty cool boat! Thanks!
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Old 03-08-2022, 09:35   #7
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Re: Four Cabin Catamaran

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do you forget slip fee. maintain, insurance here is slip price for mono

https://www.cvmarina.com/amenities-s...ee-comparison/

i think is better for you RV . possible find trailer park spot for only 800-1000$ month + electric,water,tax
No, I didn't forget slip fees, and my post below mentioned our intention to avoid that. Won't go into the details, but suffice to say we have a few ideas on how to avoid that very expensive option.

I actually lived in a 34' RV for a couple of years, and they don't really get all that much bigger than that. For a family of five, with all the kids being teens, we really want something with a bit more space. I also really, really want to get away from crowds of people, and RV/trailer parks are so crowded in together...another reason we want to avoid marinas.

Appreciate the suggestion, though! Still going after the dream!
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Old 03-08-2022, 13:41   #8
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Re: Four Cabin Catamaran

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No, I didn't forget slip fees, and my post below mentioned our intention to avoid that. Won't go into the details, but suffice to say we have a few ideas on how to avoid that very expensive option.

I actually lived in a 34' RV for a couple of years, and they don't really get all that much bigger than that. For a family of five, with all the kids being teens, we really want something with a bit more space. I also really, really want to get away from crowds of people, and RV/trailer parks are so crowded in together...another reason we want to avoid marinas.

Appreciate the suggestion, though! Still going after the dream!
The San Diego Mooring Company - Our Rates
https://www.thelog.com/local/san-die...ion-and-value/

i also keep boat on my moorings, but in Croatia this is grey area. i think also in san diego is not easy task watching on google earth.
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Old 03-08-2022, 14:16   #9
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Re: Four Cabin Catamaran

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The San Diego Mooring Company - Our Rates
https://www.thelog.com/local/san-die...ion-and-value/

i also keep boat on my moorings, but in Croatia this is grey area. i think also in san diego is not easy task watching on google earth.
Yeah, a mooring would be nice, but all the ones here in San Diego have a fairly lengthy waitlist. Liveaboard marina slips are the same. Neither of those are issues without a boat, though, so that's step 1, lol.
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Old 03-08-2022, 18:10   #10
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Re: Four Cabin Catamaran

IMHO You'll be wasting $2k a month by just owning a boat.

I think you'll find that a seller willing to owner-finance a $250k boat will want a reasonable rate of return (figure a minimum of 5% on the low end, so a 20 year loan on $250k will run you ~$1700/month). Further, they will want full insurance (budget 2% of value, so $5k annually); full maintenance ($10k-25k annually depending on what they trust you to do versus what they demand a pro handles, not including the fix-ups you intend to do); and the ability to dictate where you can or can't go with his/her collateral. So on top of your $1700 a month boat payment for 20 years, you should budget another $1500-2000 a month to cover routine boat expenses (which do not add to the value of the boat or pay down your loan). If that is not in your budget, don't go anywhere near a $250k boat. This does not include dockage, but you may have a way around that?

Not intending to be a dream-crusher, just want you to be prepared for reality.
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Old 03-08-2022, 18:19   #11
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Re: Four Cabin Catamaran

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IMHO You'll be wasting $2k a month by just owning a boat.

I think you'll find that a seller willing to owner-finance a $250k boat will want a reasonable rate of return (figure a minimum of 5% on the low end, so a 20 year loan on $250k will run you ~$1700/month). Further, they will want full insurance (budget 2% of value, so $5k annually); full maintenance ($10k-25k annually depending on what they trust you to do versus what they demand a pro handles, not including the fix-ups you intend to do); and the ability to dictate where you can or can't go with his/her collateral. So on top of your $1700 a month boat payment for 20 years, you should budget another $1500-2000 a month to cover routine boat expenses (which do not add to the value of the boat or pay down your loan). If that is not in your budget, don't go anywhere near a $250k boat. This does not include dockage, but you may have a way around that?

Not intending to be a dream-crusher, just want you to be prepared for reality.
Yeah, all of that sounds about right and is what I expect. I'm pretty much wasting that much on other things anyway with nothing to show for it, so worst case I'm in the same situation I'm in now but with a better view. I'm obviously hoping to find a cheaper boat than that, if possible, so it all just depends on what I can find. Obviously there aren't going to be many decent cats out there for much less than that, but you never know.
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Old 03-08-2022, 19:18   #12
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Re: Four Cabin Catamaran

Silviras said " "... we can definitely afford a reasonably priced boat once we don't have the massive rent payment and expensive utilities ..."


Really??? Have you don the comparative numbers? I think you should do that. Then come back to us :-)

Bonne chance!

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Old 03-08-2022, 20:05   #13
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Re: Four Cabin Catamaran

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Yeah, all of that sounds about right and is what I expect. I'm pretty much wasting that much on other things anyway with nothing to show for it, so worst case I'm in the same situation I'm in now but with a better view...
No. You won't be in the same situation.

You'll be a boat owner and owner of a sad one at that.

You will be buried with boat ownership problems, not the least of which will be endless repair and maintenance issues plus berthing issues, legal issues, power issues, provisioning issues, water issues, etc etc

They will all cost you money.

These days there seem to be a lot of people who think that living on a boat is a way to save money on living expenses. Chances are you will not find that to be the case. If you are a single male who never needs to bathe, wash clothes, or do the dishes you might be able to achieve your goal. With a family of four the novelty will soon wear off and you'll tire of the life on a boat. At anchor that will come sooner.

My wife once said, early in our years aboard, "Why would anyone choose to live aboard if they don't go sailing quite a lot?"

Most wouldn't. Liking sailing is probably the one good reason to live on a boat. It isn't your reason.

You are better off improving your value as an employee and making more money.
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Old 04-08-2022, 01:30   #14
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Re: Four Cabin Catamaran

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No. You won't be in the same situation.

You'll be a boat owner and owner of a sad one at that.

You will be buried with boat ownership problems, not the least of which will be endless repair and maintenance issues plus berthing issues, legal issues, power issues, provisioning issues, water issues, etc etc

They will all cost you money.

These days there seem to be a lot of people who think that living on a boat is a way to save money on living expenses. Chances are you will not find that to be the case. If you are a single male who never needs to bathe, wash clothes, or do the dishes you might be able to achieve your goal. With a family of four the novelty will soon wear off and you'll tire of the life on a boat. At anchor that will come sooner.

My wife once said, early in our years aboard, "Why would anyone choose to live aboard if they don't go sailing quite a lot?"

Most wouldn't. Liking sailing is probably the one good reason to live on a boat. It isn't your reason.

You are better off improving your value as an employee and making more money.
I suppose my original post wasn't the clearest, so I deserve that I guess. Our ultimate goal is to go cruising, and so our primary purpose isn't really cheaper living per se. We just rationalize it as reallocating a huge chunk of our money toward something we'd enjoy far more than crappy, crowded apartments, which at least gets us started down the path of being able to go sailing full time at some point. The whole reason I want a sailboat is because I love sailing. Otherwise I'd find an old power yacht or houseboat.

Will there be challenges? Sure, but everything in life has that. I've yet to do anything in my life that didn't have some kind of BS I didn't have to overcome. It's par for the course, and I have no illusions about just how difficult it can and likely will be, but obsessing over having everything just so just before you ever take the first step stops you from even trying at all. If it all goes horribly wrong then so be it, but I'm tired of not even getting started because of all the reasons "you shouldn't do that". I've lived my life that way for far too long already.

I definitely appreciate the feedback, though, and I'm certainly not ignoring it. I've just considered those very same points already and discussed them with the wife and we've decided it's worth going after anyway, if at all possible. Ultimately, opportunity will decide our future.
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Old 12-08-2022, 07:26   #15
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Re: Four Cabin Catamaran

SoCal liveaboard slips are hard to come by.

If was paying $1200 per month in 2014 for a 42 foot monohull slip in Marina Del Rey. Expect significantly more for a catamaran slip or end tie.


Donít forget insurance and property taxes (yes, annual prop taxes on boats).
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