Want To Buy: Dragonfly 1200

[retiredengineer]

Bo Wetzel, the admin for the Dragonfly User Forum, was the only one to reply to my inquiry as to whether a Wanted Ad on that site was useful. And, his reply was that if I am not willing to pay $70 for a 3-month ad, I shouldn't be purchasing a several hundred thousand dollar boat. He then deactivated my account.
I guess questioning whether that expense is worthwhile garners many opinions and judgments. I can afford to be retired at 56 and purchase a two-three hundred thousand dollar boat because I don't rush head long into things, doing research and asking questions beforehand.
I appreciate the few responses here that provided a good argument for placing an ad on that site, but I guess the decision has been made for me by Bo.

[PhiSig1071]

Originally Posted by retiredengineer

Bo Wetzel, the admin for the Dragonfly User Forum, was the only one to reply to my inquiry as to whether a Wanted Ad on that site was useful. And, his reply was that if I am not willing to pay $70 for a 3-month ad, I shouldn't be purchasing a several hundred thousand dollar boat. He then deactivated my account.
I guess questioning whether that expense is worthwhile garners many opinions and judgments. I can afford to be retired at 56 and purchase a two-three hundred thousand dollar boat because I don't rush head long into things, doing research and asking questions beforehand.
I appreciate the few responses here that provided a good argument for placing an ad on that site, but I guess the decision has been made for me by Bo.

To be fair, a lot of people will try to get around paying the fee by posting a thread like that. "Is a 'Wanted Ad' worth it" may be read by potential sellers as a "Wanted Ad" and then they can contact you directly. (I am a member of a number of firearms groups on Facebook, people there get around the 'no gun sales" rule that FB has by posting "What do you think this gun is worth" posts. Same idea). So he may have thought that is what you were doing, and deleted your thread or deactivated your account as a result. I tend to agree with you about paid ads. I was a member of a Supermoto forum that charged for "for sale" ad's. I had a rare and desirable one-year-only KTM Supermoto for sale, and I sold it elsewhere.

Good luck on your search, Dragonflys are beautiful boats.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by retiredengineer

Google shows a couple for sale:
2002 in Italy, asking $308K (VAT paid)
2003 in Greece, asking $340K (VAT paid)
Those are too expensive and, since I won't be keeping it in the EU, VAT being paid is worth nothing to me.

Saw a 2001 from Portugal that says Sold. Asking was $222K and it was well equipped. That asking price is closer to my budget.

If you know someone who has one they're willing to sell, have them contact me.

That $222k boat might cost the buyer $300k + by the time someone puts it in shape. "Too expensive" can only be defined by the market, which is the price someone ELSE is willing to pay (unless you're the only prospective buyer).

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

To be fair, a lot of people will try to get around paying the fee by posting a thread like that. "Is a 'Wanted Ad' worth it" may be read by potential sellers as a "Wanted Ad" and then they can contact you directly. (I am a member of a number of firearms groups on Facebook, people there get around the 'no gun sales" rule that FB has by posting "What do you think this gun is worth" posts. Same idea). So he may have thought that is what you were doing, and deleted your thread or deactivated your account as a result. I tend to agree with you about paid ads. I was a member of a Supermoto forum that charged for "for sale" ad's. I had a rare and desirable one-year-only KTM Supermoto for sale, and I sold it elsewhere.

Good luck on your search, Dragonflys are beautiful boats.

It is exactly the same thing as people trying to get out of paying a broker or selling/buying outside of eBay, but taking advantage of the power of a website someone else has.

Boo hoo, retired engineer. You got your just desserts.

OTOH, you might try crawling back with $70 in hand...

[PhiSig1071]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

It is exactly the same thing as people trying to get out of paying a broker or selling/buying outside of eBay, but taking advantage of the power of a website someone else has.

Boo hoo, retired engineer. You got your just desserts.

OTOH, you might try crawling back with $70 in hand...

I think scamming a broker who has done work for you out of thousands of dollars is a little different than not wanting to pay $70 for uncertain results.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

I think scamming a broker who has done work for you out of thousands of dollars is a little different than not wanting to pay $70 for uncertain results.

This isn't about not wanting to pay. The issue has shifted to be about placing a public "want to buy" interest post on a board that depends on advertising to help cover its cost, and prohibits such posts unless paid for.

[PhiSig1071]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

This isn't about not wanting to pay. The issue has shifted to be about placing a public "want to buy" interest post on a board that depends on advertising to help cover its cost, and prohibits such posts unless paid for.

I don't agree with trying to sneak your way around the rules, as I said in my first post doing that is probably why he got booted.

It's someone's forum, they can set whatever rules they want. If you don't like the rules, don't use the forum. Don't try to get around the rules. It's shady, doesn't look good, and they've seen it before, so it won't work.

[senormechanico]

Paging mister retired for comments...

[retiredengineer]

Didn't have the opportunity to reply to the latest comments because I was out of town yesterday. Lot of assumptions by a few so let me clear those up as best I can...

I am working with a broker, as I mentioned earlier, and inquiring here or in the Dragonfly forum is not an attempt to circumvent paying the broker's fee in the purchase price. When I find a Dragonfly 1200, I will rely on this broker's expertise in the purchasing process as well as their recommendations regarding repairs, upgrades, and where to get the work done. I consider their help to be value added and worth the added cost to the purchase price.

Because only 18 Dragonfly 1200's were built, Gary O. and Richard S. may be my best sources for finding one that isn't already for sale (in my original post, I noted two for sale in Europe). I posted in this forum because a lot of people read it and casting a wider net couldn't hurt (at least I didn't think so at the time, but am wondering about that decision now considering some of these replies).

The Dragonfly Forum was suggested by senormechanico and I took a look at it. I was apprehensive about paying for a 3-month Wanted ad because, in my opinion, it didn't seem to me like the site was well trafficked (not many posts after 2015 compared to prior years and, of those, not many have replies) and 3-months was a short time under those conditions. I posted in the General Forum to ask whether a Wanted Ad would be useful. If I would have received a couple replies that people have successfully placed Wanted Ads there, I would have gone for it. I did NOT post I was looking for a DF1200. It was not an attempt to get around the rule.

Perhaps those that have replied with comments like "boo hoo", "sneak your way around the rules", and "scamming a broker" have had some bad experiences or think the worst of people in general. You don't know me and, despite your assumptions, I am ethical and do not lie, cheat, or steal.

After having sailed on a DF1200 and DF35, I have come to really like the boat and hope to purchase the DF1200. I am not desperate or in a rush, though, and am not willing to potentially waste money (even $70) on a something that I don't know would be useful. If you disagree with me, that's fine, we are all entitled to our opinions. And, my opinion on paying for a Wanted Ad could have been changed, but Bo (the site admin) didn't want to provide that opportunity or any evidence the site was worth the expense. No biggee... I have a good broker who is looking. Just thought that potentially wider net would be helpful to him (and me).

[SailFastTri]

Hey Retired - I gave you my best advice in post #12 and 14. Good luck in your search. Feel free to reach out to me in a PM if you need any advice after you get one, I do most of my own maintenance and think know the boat as well as anyone outside Richard or Quorning.

[Shrew]

Most forums frown upon posting criticism of their forum, it's moderators or its policy. I moderate a forum other than this one and my first reaction to your post on the dragonfly forum was to cringe. Honestly, I would have deleted the thread and sent you an IM with a link to the forum policy. However, they own the forum, they can do with it as they please.

You have every right to choose not to spend the money. In fact, I'm sure that kind of thinking over the long term is how you arrived at the ability to retire and buy a vessel in that price range to begin with. You simply don't have the right to call them out on the value of their service or its pricing on their own forum.

[retiredengineer]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

Hey Retired - I gave you my best advice in post #12 and 14. Good luck in your search. Feel free to reach out to me in a PM if you need any advice after you get one, I do most of my own maintenance and think know the boat as well as anyone outside Richard or Quorning.

I appreciate your time and your advice. I've read a number of your posts in the last couple months as I've researched the Dragonfly.

I concur with your comment that condition will be a big factor in determining the price. The one in Portugal that had an asking price of $222K (who knows what it sold for...) looked to be in very good condition based on the description and the posted photos. The DF1200 I was on recently was in absolutely fabulous shape, has many upgrades, and sold for under $300K a few years ago. It is those two data points that has me thinking the two I mentioned in my original post are too expensive... to me. If the owner's get over $300K, that is fantastic for them and everyone who owns one. It's over my budget, though.

I have been told of a DF1200 that is somewhat in disrepair; I do not know the extent. It is not currently on the market, but am hoping the owner's mind can be changed. If that doesn't happen, I will probably look into a DF35 instead.

[retiredengineer]

Originally Posted by Shrew

Most forums frown upon posting criticism of their forum, it's moderators or its policy. I moderate a forum other than this one and my first reaction to your post on the dragonfly forum was to cringe. Honestly, I would have deleted the thread and sent you an IM with a link to the forum policy. However, they own the forum, they can do with it as they please.

You have every right to choose not to spend the money. In fact, I'm sure that kind of thinking over the long term is how you arrived at the ability to retire and buy a vessel in that price range to begin with. You simply don't have the right to call them out on the value of their service or its pricing on their own forum.

You make some valid points. It wasn't my intent to "call them out" but to understand the value of their service. I wouldn't place a Wanted Ad in a local newspaper because I know they don't get the audience. I didn't see any Wanted Ads on that site, didn't think there was much activity on the site because of the number of postings, and was wondering if anyone has successfully used the Wanted feature being offered.

If Bo took my posting on his forum as a criticism of his site, I apologize.

[earthbm]

As fascinating as internet etiquette is, here’s a couple of Dragonflies from this thread contributors. Anchored while the authors eat stake at a friend’s house in PNW:

[CSY Man]

I saw a Dragonfly 1200 yesterday, docked on the New River in Fort Lauderdale.
Must be a rare sighting if only 18 were ever built.
Will let you know if a For Sale sign goes up.