Leopard 38: R&C Leopard 38 - 45 - 47

[Erikte]

Hi all,

I have been looking at these boat for a time now.

Have not found much information and after contacting Robertson and Cain still little info on these boats have surfaced.

I have found dimension, technical data and so one, but little on the practicality and use of these boats.

Are there some differences in the different year models (like Leopard 47 come in 2001 and cease production on that model in 2007) did they change some (improved) in the different year?

I know that Lagoon is supposed to be single handled from the cockpit (steering position), is that the same for Leopard 38, 45 and 47?

Have only been sailing monohulls, how much crew is minimum for handling these boats?

Loads, what is the max for still good and (relatively) fast sailing (both recommended and max)?

To bay a former charter boat or not?

All comments much appreciated, also form you that have rented them, own other brands but have looked and decided not (no Leopard) and owners who love them....

Happy sailing Erik

[imagine2frolic]

I pretty much single-hand my cat, and it's 46ft. My wife drives while I set the hook, but everything else can be done with the autopilot.

[shawnbush12]

The Moorings use these boats as part of their charter fleet. I have a 2004 Leopard 47 and love it. It is big enough for me, my wife, 3 kids (9, 5, 18M) and some of our friends. I can sail her single handed, with autopilot to help if I have to go forward and such. The only trick is docking in her slip. She is about 24 feet wide and the slip is 27 feet so backing her in with wind is sometimes fun and a second person makes it easy.

I had a 38' monohull but with addition of the 3rd child, I needed something bigger and more stable. It can be blowing 20 with the wind in my hair and all the sails up and my family is in the salon playing a game with a vase of flowers on the table that is hardly moving and my kids just mention in passing that it seems a little bumpier today...try that on a Monohull...that sold me on a cat.

Some of my friends work at the Moorings (as captains, crew, and office staff) and that is how I got a lot of information on the boats. They recommended the 47 for her sailing, strength, and space. As racers, she gets pushed sometimes and she is solid as a rock and really likes the 20+ winds. We use a Spinnaker pretty often here in Florida for light winds in the summer -- maybe more than needed just because I like to fly it...

As far as loading her, we did a week trip last June from Sarasota, FL (Tampa Bay area) to the Dry Tortugas, to Key West and back with my family (5) and 6 others (2 adults and 4 teens) and all our stuff including kayaks, dive gear, dive compressor, hookah, water maker, etc., still doing 7-8 knots in nice breeze. BTW that was a lot of people (my boat is the owner version with 3 cabins) and doubt I would do that again even with the new AC units installed that I did when we got back.

I looked at buying a chartered version but found a privately owned one in St. Martin that was in perfect condition highly outfitted so I bought her.

[billgow]

I'm also very interested in these catamarans.

I’ve done a little sailing (I started club racing when I was in the single digits) and have returned to that venue several times since throughout my lifetime. I’ve owned several small cats as well.

I’m beginning to make retirement plans and a comfortable cat that I can fish from would be ideal. The uncluttered rear of the boat is what got my attention as did the Voyage and Admiral. My target species will be primarily sailfish and marlin with dorado and tuna being added to the menu when we’re lucky enough to have them hit our spread. I intend to use this boat in the Sea of Cortez. My goal isn’t cruising with a couple lines out, it’s fishing with a full spread in tow. I like the walkway between the two hulls on these boats and the fact that the traveler is overhead allowing for lots of uncluttered fish fighting room behind the bridge deck.

There is a Yahoo Group for these cats;
LeopardCat-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

I just uploaded the polar chart for the Alexander Simonis designed 45 and 47 to the group.

[jzk]

Originally Posted by billgow

I just uploaded the polar chart for the Alexander Simonis designed 45 and 47 to the group.

Here is a copy of those polars. I hope you don't mind me reposting here:

[billgow]

Originally Posted by jzk

Here is a copy of those polars. I hope you don't mind me reposting here:

Not at all. In addition to the polar chart, I also uploaded another 8 or 9 pages of the data they used to plot out that chart.

I contacted Morrelli & Melvin and asked them for the charts on the 40 and 46 that I'll post to the group as well when I receive them.

[jzk]

Yeah, I saw those. In fact, I have been curious about that info for quite some time.

Quite impressive if those are true. Look at the Salina 48 polars:



Notice that the Leopard in 16 knots of wind performs better than the Salina in 20 knots.

[billgow]

Originally Posted by jzk

Notice that the Leopard in 16 knots of wind performs better than the Salina in 20 knots.

The Leopard appears to point into the wind better as well. I like the various wind speeds plotted on the Leopard chart better so I have an idea of what happens in light winds. I also like knowing how the spinnaker effects performance. I think a screecher or asymmetrical spinnaker in light winds would be a great benefit to the Leopard.

[jzk]

That is precisely why Fountaine Pajot only publishes polars for 20 knots of wind. The Shape of the FP polar curve makes me think that from 100 on is with a spinnaker.

[cameron forsyth]

In relation to Robertson & Caine Leopards from personal experience have a good surveyor check for delaminating and osmosis due manufacturing deficiencies result of poor quality of workmanship that was not picked up or corrected during their quality verification process. I had extensive delaminating and osmosis in both hulls of a 45 that resulted in very costly corrective repairs.

[billgow]

Originally Posted by jzk

That is precisely why Fountaine Pajot only publishes polars for 20 knots of wind.

Too bad, we don't always have 20MPH winds. What happens at 10MPH? Does it just sit in irons?

Originally Posted by jzk

The Shape of the FP polar curve makes me think that from 100 on is with a spinnaker.

I think you're right.

I have charts for a couple other designs and the one that is most interesting is the Lagoon 440 http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1554/p440de8.gif It's got a big dent between 100 and 120 degrees. They say it's because of the amount of gennaker deployed but I'd have to ask why it's not more evenly used.

[Erikte]

Thanks for comments the more info the better

shawnbush12 sounds like a lovely boat, strong and good. What do you think of the size of the bathrooms/wc on the owner side compare to the double side. Is it so much better that one should look for a 3 cabin version??

billgow and jzk thanks for input on polar charts

Hope also to get more comments from others who have chartered it or owners.

Any that don´t like them and why!

Erik

[sandy daugherty]

I chartered a Moorings 4700 with 7 adults on board. There were some chores that required two people, but for the most part, it was a very pleasant cruise. Not terribly exciting, but the boat seemed completely unperturbed by 25 knots of wind. I found the big arch a very positive feature, that left the cockpit completely open: we called it the verahndah!

This was a four cabin charter boat, and I considered the four heads to be excessive, and a nightmare to maintain. The engine compartments were only accessible from the sugar scoops, but were enormous, and easy to move around in when the engines were cool. [not otherwise.] The center windlass was easy to use to raise the heavy mainsail. There was plenty of room on deck for water toys, but they did occasionally interfere with sail handling. In short, a big, chubby catamaran with no bad habits, that was easy to handle in close. We never spilled a single thing, except a paper plate that would occasionally become airborne!

[jzk]

When researching the Leopard 47, I came across this survey as an example of this particular surveying company's work:

http://www.cotesudconsulting.com/ima...ion_Survey.pdf

Sounds like this particular Leopard 47 surveyed pretty well coming out of charter. I have also heard that the oder Leopard 45's and 47s are build slightly better than the newer ones, but only by owners of the older ones, so I have no way to confirm this.

[Erikte]

cameron forsyth - thanks for comment and i think a very trough (good) survey is necessary on all boats before one consider to bay.