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Old 28-02-2018, 09:57   #46
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

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Originally Posted by Escape_Velocity View Post
I agree with Mariano completely. This entire website would be so much better if it were not for (1) all the pervasive negativity and trolling for arguments and (2) baseless, but certitude-laden expertise and demonstrably false statements. And, Iím not talking isolated mistakes or qualified facts (we all make mistakes).

But, for example, why come here just to say things like ďanother heavy boat from LeopardĒ? What are you adding? Do you think your statement helps anyone, or does it just exposes your bias?
Wow, 7 posts and you are already p$%$ed off!

Yes, everyone has a bias, including you!

CF wouldn't exist if everyone agreed, held hands, and sang Kum-ba-yah.
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Old 28-02-2018, 10:10   #47
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

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I'm referring to pictures of the trip, not my cat (which has been designed by someone else, not me).

This site certainly attracts a variety of intellects.

Cheers
Cliff
Why would sailing photos matter to anyone, and what would that prove?

What we really want to see is your revolutionary boat, Cliff, the one you say "you're building" that will be "light and fast."

Show us some proof of that. Let us evaluate that special vessel you're building.

Teach me something. You're clearly the smarter than me. Let me stand on your giant shoulders.

Show us pictures of your custom boat, Cliff!

[This, by the way, will never happen, folks.]
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Old 28-02-2018, 10:15   #48
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

Thank you Escape and Mariano. Iíve wanted to respond like that many times over my stay here, various threads. Yes, armchair idiots are a big problem. Someone once asked in the manufacture section why so few posts about Leopards. Itís because actual owners have a private group elsewhere where non-sailors or has beens, or (fill in the blank) canít chime in with crap like that.
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Old 28-02-2018, 12:05   #49
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

It would be a more friendly place if the forum rules were followed:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ork&page=rules
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Old 28-02-2018, 16:28   #50
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

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It would be a more friendly place if the forum rules were followed:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ork&page=rules
Pity you didn't follow those rules with me in the Croatia thread there beanie.

I reckon we are all guilty of bias and we all need to exercise some tolerance in accepting others point of view as being usually just as valid as our own.

The guys calling this boat a barge or whatever have a valid point of view. They are not trolls or armchair sailors they just aren't your kind of sailor.

Frankly hiding behind this kind of defence if you don't like what someone is saying is pretty poor imho. Rather debate the logic of what they have to say.

My 10c
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Old 28-02-2018, 16:40   #51
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

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The guys calling this boat a barge or whatever have a valid point of view. They are not trolls or armchair sailors they just aren't your kind of sailor.
Wrong. That's precisely what they are; Bean's link reveals:
Trolling on this board includes posting controversial and often irrelevant or off-topic messages with the intention of (or anticipated result of) baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal, harmonious on-topic discussion, especially when a pattern of such posting is apparent.
Cliff actually bragged about how he likes to come here to "bait" people. And, now I've been sucked into the abyss where it's a "valid point of view" to call a newly-designed boat a "barge or whatever." But it's not, actually. It's nonsense and does nothing to further the "harmonious on-topic discussion."

I think I'll just go back to lurking and rolling my eyes at all the trolling, know-it-alls (and there's a lot of you). It's sad that you've succeeded in quashing any enlightening discussion about this new vessel or allowing some of us to actually learn something new and helpful.
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Old 28-02-2018, 19:18   #52
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

If chillin on a big party platform, with enough space to fit all your toys is your thing than this vessel probably fits the bill.

Sailing this style of cat is like sailing a big plush couch. Comfortable and without much regard to Preformane.

Not saying that as a positive or negative thing. For some trips itís great.

It is a bit sad that the older leopards were actually decent in the performance category. I lived on a 47 for a few years running up and down the US east coast and Caribbean. Found that boat to be a capable blue water vessel.
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Old 28-02-2018, 20:33   #53
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

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If chillin on a big party platform, with enough space to fit all your toys is your thing than this vessel probably fits the bill.

Sailing this style of cat is like sailing a big plush couch. Comfortable and without much regard to Preformane.

Not saying that as a positive or negative thing. For some trips itís great.

It is a bit sad that the older leopards were actually decent in the performance category. I lived on a 47 for a few years running up and down the US east coast and Caribbean. Found that boat to be a capable blue water vessel.
Give us your definition of performance? 12-15kts of wind and hull speed?

That's been my experience with recent model Leopards. They do a good job matching rig/sail area with size/weight.
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Old 28-02-2018, 21:01   #54
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Photos of the New Leopard 50

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Give us your definition of performance? 12-15kts of wind and hull speed?



That's been my experience with recent model Leopards. They do a good job matching rig/sail area with size/weight.

Oh yeah, 12 -15kts what point of sail? Whatís your VMG going upwind? I can play this game as well. Newer lagoons and leopards have issues with upwind Preformane. Compared to leopards and lagoons from 10 or 15 years ago.

I personally like both cats and monos for different reasons but they are not the same and should not be compared the same way. For me itís apples and oranges.

Not discounting your experience at all BTW. I spent 3 days sailing from Saint Martin in the trade winds doing plus 12kts with just the spinnaker up.

But I have also sailed plus 12kts sailing 35 degrees to the wind heading to Saint Martin in a Salona 44.

Apples and oranges.
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Old 01-03-2018, 05:35   #55
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

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Originally Posted by JC Reefer View Post
Oh yeah, 12 -15kts what point of sail? Whatís your VMG going upwind? I can play this game as well. Newer lagoons and leopards have issues with upwind Preformane. Compared to leopards and lagoons from 10 or 15 years ago.

I personally like both cats and monos for different reasons but they are not the same and should not be compared the same way. For me itís apples and oranges.

Not discounting your experience at all BTW. I spent 3 days sailing from Saint Martin in the trade winds doing plus 12kts with just the spinnaker up.

But I have also sailed plus 12kts sailing 35 degrees to the wind heading to Saint Martin in a Salona 44.

Apples and oranges.
And I've done 50kts on a jetski.
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Old 01-03-2018, 05:54   #56
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Photos of the New Leopard 50

Iíve never sailed on a catamaran ( unless a moth counts) so i guess i qualify as an armchair sailor in that regard. However surely the purpose of this forum is to generate debate?
People posting derogatory comments about your particular love is maybe wounding to you but entertaining to me and maybe a few others. The only stipulation i would make is that the derogatory comments need to be funnier ( like the Ďinsulting to bricksí one)
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:11   #57
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

Has anyone here sailed on the new Leopard on ANY point of sail?. Think not, so lets wait till someone has real "on the boat" sailing and tells us how it goes.
It's a NEW boat, so having sailed a 47, a 45 ir a 40 thas not count as experience.

Mariano

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Old 01-03-2018, 11:04   #58
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

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Iíve never sailed on a catamaran ( unless a moth counts) so i guess i qualify as an armchair sailor in that regard. However surely the purpose of this forum is to generate debate?
I thought the purpose of the forum was to help each other. If the purpose is to generate debate then I'm on the wrong forum.
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Old 20-04-2018, 12:31   #59
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

Anybody been sailing on the new 50 yet? How's the real world performance?
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Old 20-04-2018, 19:20   #60
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

I too wish negative comments that don't contribute to a conversation weren't so prevalent here. Perhaps a karma system where downvotes comments can be set to be invisible. Or where people's reputation for factual and fair answers were somehow prioritized.

As for performance, so many people comment that the big 3 sail like school busses while Outremer and HH are racing Ferraris. Look at the ARC results (e.g. a day difference on a 28 day sail... yes with a few more engine hours). For most cruisers, the performance difference is negligible. If I were planning to live a Med/Caribbean seasonal crossing life, I would care about speed a lot more than I do Island hopping. And on a two day sail, the speed benefits are negligible while the comfort on the big 3 is fantastic. Especially when entertaining.

I would expect the performance of the Leopard 50 to exceed the 48 and there is some great real world performance on the Happy Together Youtube channel. They are even upgrading to a 50 so you'll see those specs when they upload those new vids.
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