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Old 24-02-2018, 09:06   #31
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

Seems like a remarkably narrow path from the stern through to the salon. And a single sliding door? Weird. Especially for a boat of that size.
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Old 24-02-2018, 10:14   #32
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

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That’s insulting to bricks - be nice on this forum.

Awesome platform for a party week with a bunch of unrestrained exhibitionists, but I’m not sure why they’ve bothered with a rig and sails. It would need to be a big family to justify 4-6 cabins for a long term cruising boat (and likely as many heads) - oy, the cleaning.

I’m sure it’s beautiful to some. Enjoy.


Yep..
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Old 24-02-2018, 11:13   #33
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

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We ordered the new leopard 50, 6 months ago when it was first released. Miami was the first time we saw it in person. We are pretty excited about the new lines and all the enhancements to the interior. We now feel like the leopards are approaching the great interiors of the FP’s and lagoons. We currently have a leopard 48 and ours sails unbelievably well. Most of the folks at Leopard believe the 48 is the best sailing boat in years. We were very concerned about performance on the new 50 so we ordered the performance model it’s called the leopard 50 P. It weighs 1500 pounds less than the L model and it does not have the flybridge or that big dinghy platform, neither of which we will want for passage making. Ours is hull number 21 and it will be the first P model which means we are the outliers. The boom is lowered and the mast is taller and they’re offering CDX performance sails. With all that it’s still a big cruising cat so I will probably have a commercial scale at the dock to make sure we don’t overload her with gear and equipment :-)
Congratulations! And good thinking! I really like the 50P.
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Old 24-02-2018, 11:52   #34
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

[QUOTE=contrail;2584373]To put a more factual spin on it, TUI no longer owns Leopard or Moorings/Sunsail. Not that it matters, but TUI is a German company.

Happy to stand corrected. The ultimate holding company is German listed on the London stock exchange. Leopard / moorings etc was acquired by TUI PLC , the British subsidiary. Then later merged with TUI AG. The Adventure travel division, called Travelopia and based in Britain, made up of 50+ brands which included them, was flogged off to KKR in Feb 2017 for $404m.

So I guess you could now argue it is a US business?
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Old 24-02-2018, 12:21   #35
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

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In the interest of having the facts straight, as you said, the days of all the Leopards sailing all over the world from Capetown are over.
Really? I don't think that's correct.

You can actually order "water delivery" versus "freight delivery" when purchasing a Leopard. It's also cheaper. See attached.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Leopard 50 #000 - MIA BS 2018 Special - 01-24-18.pdf (201.9 KB, 187 views)
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Old 24-02-2018, 13:47   #36
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

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Originally Posted by Escape_Velocity View Post
It turns out the bridgedeck clearance on the Leopard 50L is 3 feet -- actually 3.5 feet on a half load. See the attached.







I'm not a naval architect, but I'm not sure whether that matters if your bridgedeck is high enough. Moreover, if anything, I doubt it has any effect on the comfort of sailing, since the whole purpose of the bridgedeck height is to reduce slapping, but it may affect speed. And I've no doubt an Outremer is a higher-performance boat.







That's undoubtedly true, but then Leopard's sail all over the world from Cape Town (where they have some of the most treacherous waters in the world) -- hence the term Cape of Good Hope -- so it's a little hard to believe that they are anything other than adept off-shore boats.



Anyway, I happen to think the boat is gorgeous and saw it in Miami. I get that some may not like the aesthetics, but if we're going to criticize the boat's performance we should probably all make sure we have the facts straight ... just saying.

Thanks for the documentation. Can that dinghy platform be raised - it sure looks lower than 3 feet above the water?

However, I stand by my comments regarding the length of the bridgedeck tunnel - shorter is more comfortable and seakindly. There are several reasons why performance and race oriented cats have long front trampolines and shorter bridgedecks - less windage over waves, less surface area for waves, less weight.

Finally, all those flat, vertical surfaces add a lot of drag and by increasing interior volume add more weight, so that also decreases the performance potential. A natural trade off when the design brief is to maximise accommodations. Nothing wrong with that, but it is reality.

Performance in a downwind Atlantic ARC won’t be hurt by a longer (or lower) bridgedeck and the increased windage and weight, but it will make passages like the one to/from NZ or across the Indian Ocean slower and more uncomfortable.
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Old 25-02-2018, 01:21   #37
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

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Originally Posted by happytogether View Post
We ordered the new leopard 50, 6 months ago when it was first released. Miami was the first time we saw it in person. :-)


That’s great Randy. Congratulations. Looking forward to seeing it on your channel.

Steve
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Old 28-02-2018, 02:56   #38
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

Another overweight barge from Leopard.

Cheers
Cliff
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Old 28-02-2018, 04:11   #39
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

I quite like the looks, for what it's worth. And it would be a very nice place to hang out at anchor I'm sure.

The two things that concern me about sailing that thing is any weather though it 1) the windage, its like a skyscraper... It has more surface area for the wind to act upon with the sails down than some yachts have with the sails up! an 2) the height of the boom. I's somewhere in the stratosphere. The wind will surely be acting on the boat like a lever, rather than giving it a lateral push.

I'm sure all the stability calculations and rig loading calculations have been done, but just on a looks alone basis, it looks, a bit, errr "flippy" if I got caught in a serious squall with all the canvas out I'd be puckered up.

But I don't sail cats, so I know nothing, I'm sure.
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Old 28-02-2018, 05:53   #40
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

It´s really funny to see all these armchair forum menbers (can't call them sailors, sorry) criticize any new sailboat that hits the market,especially catamarans, based only on a few videos and photos. All I read is that they have too much windage, too much or too little sails, so heavy or so light weight, the hulls are too wide/narrow....and the list goes on forever. I´m not saying that it's bad to criticize a boat, but based on a solid basis, not just a few pics. I'd bet a sixpack that 95% (or is it 99%) of the critics written here where made by people that never sailed this catamaran, and base their opinions on the scare information they find on the web (or on what they experienced in the 70´s on a home made plywood catamaran).

All boats are different, and require different handling and tactics, just like cars. It's OK if you like to go around on a Cadillac or a Camry, but don't criticize others if they prefer to drive a Pagani , a Smart, a Hyundai or a WWII Willys.


Mariano

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Old 28-02-2018, 08:31   #41
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

I agree with Mariano completely. This entire website would be so much better if it were not for (1) all the pervasive negativity and trolling for arguments and (2) baseless, but certitude-laden expertise and demonstrably false statements. And, I’m not talking isolated mistakes or qualified facts (we all make mistakes).

But, for example, why come here just to say things like “another heavy boat from Leopard”? What are you adding? Do you think your statement helps anyone, or does it just exposes your bias?

Like it or not, some people love sailing catamarans, find them beautiful, and superior to other vessels. Also, these boats — particularly the production yachts — have sailed the world, are expertly designed and tested, and have proven track records.

Heavy? Yeah. What’s your point? It’s not a racing vessel and weight is part of the trade off when a boat has so many creature comforts. Some people happily make that compromise. A heavier boat, it is also more stable.

Windage is always a good point, as is the location of the boom. But that’s the 50L. It has a fly bridge, like a FP Saba, which usually means a higher boom to avoid it interfering with people enjoying the upper deck.

But Leopard is smart. They offer a 50P. No flybridge, reducing windage, and the boom is lowered to the traditional level. By the way, I agree with everyone concerned about a high boom—but not for any of the reasons they’ve stated. The main reason I dislike the high boom is that access to the boom is well-beyond the reach of most average-height people. You’d have to stand on the helm enclosure to get to it. That’s not just dangerous, it’s wildly impractical for long term cruisers. But it’s also fixed by selecting a different model.

Square corners or shape? Do we have to keep that debate going? Yes, you can hurt yourself on square corners, but remember: this is a catamaran. They don’t sail like a monohull — even when they’re passing one! — and the lack of heal means far less danger from square shapes which, I prefer aesthetically.

Indeed, as a general rule, the boat shape has far more to do with aesthetics versus sailing capability. Mariano’s comments about cars are apt.

A Land Rover and a Jeep have very different aesthetics and can do most of the same things, but one is more comfortable than the other. Likewise, a Ford and a Bentley may be seen at the same restaurants, and both get home safely.

When we compare production catamarans, there’s often only differences in performance. Outremer and Catana are on the high-performance end of the spectrum. Lagoon and FP are on the comfort end of the spectrum. I’ve sailed on all of them. They all have pros and cons, but they’re all seaworthy boats and, if anyone is giving one away, please let me know!

Incidentally, there’s other brands that straddle the continuum, like Balance Catamarans, which aim to “balance” the performance/comfort dichotomy. They’re worth a look too!

I come here because I love sailing, especially sailing catamarans. I sincerely welcome constructive, knowledgeable debate or criticism. I make mistakes too. But, my one wish is that posters offer something more than staid biases or vacuous opinions.

Step it up! Teach me something. Educate me. Persuade me. Just leave those saltly attitudes and opinions for all your many “ocean crossings” ...
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Old 28-02-2018, 09:33   #42
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Escape_Velocity View Post
I agree with Mariano completely. This entire website would be so much better if it were not for (1) all the pervasive negativity and trolling for arguments and (2) baseless, but certitude-laden expertise and demonstrably false statements. And, I’m not talking isolated mistakes or qualified facts (we all make mistakes).

But, for example, why come here just to say things like “another heavy boat from Leopard”? What are you adding? Do you think your statement helps anyone, or does it just exposes your bias?

Like it or not, some people love sailing catamarans, find them beautiful, and superior to other vessels. Also, these boats — particularly the production yachts — have sailed the world, are expertly designed and tested, and have proven track records.

Heavy? Yeah. What’s your point? It’s not a racing vessel and weight is part of the trade off when a boat has so many creature comforts. Some people happily make that compromise. A heavier boat, it is also more stable.

Windage is always a good point, as is the location of the boom. But that’s the 50L. It has a fly bridge, like a FP Saba, which usually means a higher boom to avoid it interfering with people enjoying the upper deck.

But Leopard is smart. They offer a 50P. No flybridge, reducing windage, and the boom is lowered to the traditional level. By the way, I agree with everyone concerned about a high boom—but not for any of the reasons they’ve stated. The main reason I dislike the high boom is that access to the boom is well-beyond the reach of most average-height people. You’d have to stand on the helm enclosure to get to it. That’s not just dangerous, it’s wildly impractical for long term cruisers. But it’s also fixed by selecting a different model.

Square corners or shape? Do we have to keep that debate going? Yes, you can hurt yourself on square corners, but remember: this is a catamaran. They don’t sail like a monohull — even when they’re passing one! — and the lack of heal means far less danger from square shapes which, I prefer aesthetically.

Indeed, as a general rule, the boat shape has far more to do with aesthetics versus sailing capability. Mariano’s comments about cars are apt.

A Land Rover and a Jeep have very different aesthetics and can do most of the same things, but one is more comfortable than the other. Likewise, a Ford and a Bentley may be seen at the same restaurants, and both get home safely.

When we compare production catamarans, there’s often only differences in performance. Outremer and Catana are on the high-performance end of the spectrum. Lagoon and FP are on the comfort end of the spectrum. I’ve sailed on all of them. They all have pros and cons, but they’re all seaworthy boats and, if anyone is giving one away, please let me know!

Incidentally, there’s other brands that straddle the continuum, like Balance Catamarans, which aim to “balance” the performance/comfort dichotomy. They’re worth a look too!

I come here because I love sailing, especially sailing catamarans. I sincerely welcome constructive, knowledgeable debate or criticism. I make mistakes too. But, my one wish is that posters offer something more than staid biases or vacuous opinions.

Step it up! Teach me something. Educate me. Persuade me. Just leave those saltly attitudes and opinions for all your many “ocean crossings” ...
I thought someone would bite. That's what I love about CF.

I love catamarans too. That's why I'm building one.

It'll be a proper catamaran - light and fast.

I helped deliver a new Leopard 48 from Cape Town to Sicily four years ago.

7600 miles. 10 weeks.

It was my worst catamaran sailing experience (of many).

Want me to send you some pictures as proof?

But I'm just an armchair critic.

Cheers
Cliff
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Old 28-02-2018, 09:41   #43
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

Nope, that just makes you a troll. And a self-proclaimed naval architect.

But yes, please post pictures of your design and/or build as proof. Let us critically evaluate your revolutionary catamaran, big talker.

Or are you worried I’d “bite”?
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Old 28-02-2018, 09:48   #44
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

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Originally Posted by Escape_Velocity View Post
Nope, that just makes you a troll. And a self-proclaimed naval architect.

But yes, please post pictures of your design and/or build as proof. Let us critically evaluate your revolutionary catamaran, big talker.

Or are you worried I’d “bite”?
I'm referring to pictures of the trip, not my cat (which has been designed by someone else, not me).

This site certainly attracts a variety of intellects.

Cheers
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Old 28-02-2018, 09:53   #45
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Re: Photos of the New Leopard 50

People have crossed oceans and weathered storms on much smaller sailboats, even rowboats... You just have to sail the conditions and your boat's capabilities. Our ex Lagoon 450 got us through some 40+ squalls, S. Pacific weather systems, and huge waves, with just myself and my wife. I was very conservative and did not push the boat. I'm not a racer. The Leopard 50 will do as well as her skipper allows her to. Enjoy the boat. Life is short...
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