Leopard cracked Saloon Window(s)

[Zazu]

Originally Posted by Limpet

I saw a few Leopard 48 owners comment that their saloon window(s) crack. This may apply to Leopard 44, 48, & 45.


Anyone have the details as to what is going on and which models & years it applies to?

Yes my Leopard 44 2015 model both starboard windows cracked from the base. I can only put it down to hot weather. Both cracked a day apart. I contacted Leopard Australia with no knowledge of this happening reply. Only a popped saloon window on a Leopard 40.

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Zazu

Yes my Leopard 44 2015 model both starboard windows cracked from the base. I can only put it down to hot weather. Both cracked a day apart. I contacted Leopard Australia with no knowledge of this happening reply.

You can't put this down to "hot weather". It is bad design. There is absolutely NO reason that "hot weather" should cause windows to crack if the fixing and bedding is properly done.

Originally Posted by Zazu

Only a popped saloon window on a Leopard 40.

"Only"? What do you do if your saloon window "pops" in bad weather 1000 miles offshore?

[clubbers]

I've done a bit of research the past days (and still in the process) and I've seen experts state that both polycarb and plxiglas has issues with getting them watertight, especially over time.

Given that, tt seemsA factory that puts out a few hundres boats a year, will have a few boats per year that get leaks in the windows. In fact, almost every youtuber seems to have some degree or occasions with leaks in the portlishgts windows, from time to time.
Now... I'm looking into buyng a leopard, so I'm very interested in finding out if Leopard has more leaks than others, or if it's just a normal rate of leaking windows?

One comment on the poly vs plexy. Yes, poly is stronger, but it's also less scratch resistent, and will turn "milky" quicker.

[Sailor 99]

Originally Posted by LeeV

And just received this from Leopard:

Dear Lee,

Regarding the windows of all Leopards - We no longer use the materials we did in 2004. The Betaseal product was not UV stable. Windows are now installed using Sikaflex 295UV on all Leopards since 2008.

Have a great weekend.

Kind regards

Daniel Snyman

I had a C&C 34. They had dark grey plexiglass side windows and they leaked. I used Sika 295UV to put them in. I followed the instructions and used the primer. Next year they leaked. Same thing .... The problem is that 295UV will not bond directly to the acrylic so they have you paint on a primer that bonds to the acrylic and then the 295UV bonds to the primer.

Acrylic is actually hard to bond to.

Now I use this

https://www.amazon.com/GE-SilPruf-Si...gateway&sr=8-1

Atkins & Hoyle use this product

https://www.siliconeforbuilding.com/...struction.aspx

I have an acquantence who says you need to hit the area that the SCS bonds to with acetone to ensure the SCS sticks well.

We had a huge skylight in our 86 Bene when we got it and the glass was cracked. It was bonded in with some kind of a rubber compound that was so well adhered to the acrylic and the gelcoat that it tore the fiberglass off the boat when we removed it. I would like to find that stuff.

We have friends who have a Jeanneau Sunkiss 47 with great big long windows over the main saloon and they keep cracking due to expansion and contraction.

[Sailor 99]

Originally Posted by billknny

You can't put this down to "hot weather". It is bad design. There is absolutely NO reason that "hot weather" should cause windows to crack if the fixing and bedding is properly done.

"Only"? What do you do if your saloon window "pops" in bad weather 1000 miles offshore?

I am not sure your correct about the cracking. The coefficient of expansion is so much greater with the acrylic than with the fiberglass structure it is bonded too. In my mind this is not actually the proper way to build windows but then I am just an end user.

aluminum frames are in my mind much safer and big sheets of plexi glass scare me for exactly the question you ask. What do you do if your window pops 1000 miles offshore.

I knew a guy who headed out across the Atlantic with is 2 sons and a buddy. Headed for the Azores. I heard the story second hand so don't know details bu....

Apparently they blew out a couple of windows and as a result could not go onto a port tack. ( no batten boards? I thought this was a basic.) They did not make the Azores. They landed in Africa. It was not a nice trip.

[LeeV]

The summary of what I’ve heard and was told is that the L44 has suffered the most with cracked and leaking windows, apparently due to a build with thinner, lighter materials in the areas around the windows that flex. The windows then crack or move creating leaks. The factory and shops that service Leopards are aware of this, and it “may” very well be one contributing reason for the shorter production of the L44, leading to the L45.

Regards,

[Morndenkainen]

Well, I'm glad this thread exists, answered my questions. I wish someone had posted a replacement cost or a link to a how-to or been there/done that, here's how we did it video... Ahh well, perhaps I'll start a youtube channel.

[Piscis]

Originally Posted by Morndenkainen

Well, I'm glad this thread exists, answered my questions. I wish someone had posted a replacement cost or a link to a how-to or been there/done that, here's how we did it video... Ahh well, perhaps I'll start a youtube channel.

If you own a Leopard, you can join the facebook owners groups. Much more information there.

There seems to be two issues, not really related:

1. cracked windows
2. leaking window seals

As for the cracked windows, there are a couple of possible reasons discussed on the facebook groups. First i though the main reason would be flexing of the hulls in very rough seas, combined with micro cracks starting at the holes drilled to attach the windows.

Now i am more tending topwards the theorie of extrem thermal expansion due to high amount of heat (black material with lots of sunlight) at the base of the large forward salon window, compared to the relative cool and shaded top part of it. Someone in the fb group made some temperature measurements at the base and at the top. Difference was huge.

AFAIK most cracks windows getting replaced under factory warranty or during phase out when charter commitment is over.

Ours was replaced during phase out and we sailed the vessel with the new window in VERY rough seas from Africa to Thailand through the indian ocean for almost 5 months. No cracks so far.

For the leaking window problems: We are sailing charter boats since many years. Our Leopard 40 is acctually the first vessel that does not have any leaking windows so far.

Best regards,

John

[theBigKahuna]

Our 2015 Leopard 40's saloon window cracked while on the hard. We're attributing that to the butt-head (trying to be polite) shipyard owner who didn't bother looking at any of the 4 copies of blocking/lift diagrams.... from the manufacturer.

We had ours replaced in Fort Lauderdale,shipped from SA. There are a number of folks that can also fabricate a new one.

Love the boat... not so much for the windows!

Cheers,
jBrad
sv Fuzzy Logic

[Sailorman97]

Originally Posted by LeeV

And just received this from Leopard:

Dear Lee,

Regarding the windows of all Leopards - We no longer use the materials we did in 2004. The Betaseal product was not UV stable. Windows are now installed using Sikaflex 295UV on all Leopards since 2008.

Have a great weekend.

Kind regards

Daniel Snyman

I used Sik 295 UV on the window of my old C&C 34. Used it several time. It never held for long. You have to use a primer on the plexi and then bond it with the 295 UV. The bond always failed on the acrylic.

I don't use it anymore.

I went to the Atkins & Hoyle ( hatch manufacturer) shop in Toronto and they sold me some Silaprene and that works really well. The other product is SCS2000 SilPruf™ Sealant. It also bonds the acrylic very well. Have not had a failure yet on the SCS2000


I look at some of these boats with their huge plexi windows and I see nothing but a problem

[Piscis]

On the large side and forward looking salon window, we installed some semi transparent, retractable covers. Easy to lift and replace. So when the boat sits for a couple of weeks in the Marina, we have the shades cover the windows. When we are on the way, we roll them up. Hoping that will prevent them from cracking....

One of the reasons we liked the Leopards very much is the fantastic bright salon area with those huge windows and a 360 degrees view.

Lets see.

John

[Piscis]

I used Sik 295 UV on the window of my old C&C 34. Used it several time. It never held for long. You have to use a primer on the plexi and then bond it with the 295 UV. The bond always failed on the acrylic.

I was at the dock when two experienced marine mechanics replaced a side window on the hull of my 2017 Leopard 40. One of those 2 meter acrylic windows.

After 5 years, the window, which had been glued in with the mentioned 295UV in 2017, was still extremly bonded to the fiberglas. It took the workers quite long to get the window off the hull.
Not sure why you are having such a bad experience with the 295UV, but i would assume it is less the 295UV then maybe a wrong process of applying it, some outdated product or other issues.

John