Leopard 45 or 40?

[CbroTheDude]

Originally Posted by robertk445

So you would buy a Mercedes from the local dealer on the East coast and let the car be driven across the USA to the West Coast, having 3000 miles on it when you get your new Mercedes? Don't think so! Leopards on the ship make perfect sense!

Cheers!

Wild analogy there as your merc would have been tested in conditions much closer to the Ines it's expected to face in the factory than the leopard in its bathtub. And yet some people turn the implication (boat not seaworthy => can not be shipped on its bottom) for an equivalence. Which technically is a mistake but still makes sense. Moreover you are pretty sure a whole bunch of issues will have been identified on a transat trip

[WWV]

Funny I happened to be on the West coast/San Diego the other day and stopped in one of the local sales shops. A salesman said almost exactly that when I asked about seeing more of the production cats on the West coast. I was talking new and to paraphrase he said:

"Well, if you bring them here on their bottom, they're basically a used boat by the time they go across Atlantic, through canal and up to California. Then we have to fix and repair damage from long journey. To ship them is even more expensive"

Anyways....I like the Leopard line initially and I'm going out in a few weeks to get a up close look at all models. Will post my feedback after I do.

WWV

[Jim Woodall]

Originally Posted by WWV

Funny I happened to be on the West coast/San Diego the other day and stopped in one of the local sales shops. A salesman said almost exactly that when I asked about seeing more of the production cats on the West coast. I was talking new and to paraphrase he said:



"Well, if you bring them here on their bottom, they're basically a used boat by the time they go across Atlantic, through canal and up to California. Then we have to fix and repair damage from long journey. To ship them is even more expensive"



Anyways....I like the Leopard line initially and I'm going out in a few weeks to get a up close look at all models. Will post my feedback after I do.



WWV

The reason Leopards are now more often than not shipped to the North American market (which includes the Caribbean) is strictly economical and has nothing to do with seaworthiness or reducing wear and tear. Most Leopards headed to other destinations (the Med and Asia) go on their own bottoms. R&C sells enough boats in the North American market to take advantage of economies of scale offered by the cargo carrier. Also, as someone else pointed out, mileage and associated costs to hire crew from a European port - v - Cape Town is quite different. Another issue, only South African captains can now deliver from SA to foreign ports. There are not always enough delivery crews to go around. An owner (regardless of citizenship) is allowed to sail his or her Leopard away, of course.

[Thalas]

Originally Posted by Factor

Originally Posted by Inexorable View Post
For some reason FP and Lagoon place the props aft of the rudder,

Every time I see that I shake my head

Honestly, it's a tradeoff. Prop aft of the rudder gives up some responsiveness, but gains an engine aft of the sleeping quarters and a slightly more peaceful ride. Props forward of rudder means you're sleeping on your engine and all that noise and all the dirty engine maintenance happens in your bedroom.

I think the responsiveness loss is usually overstated so I'll take that layout.

[Inexorable]

Forgot about the thread, but I ended up buying a Leopard 48. Didn't see any of the models with the engine below the aft berths. In my model the only thing under our bed is a hot water heater and a lot of storage. The engines and berths are separated by a bulkhead and accessed from the outside.
Loving the 48 so far!

[SVNeko]

Originally Posted by Thalas

Honestly, it's a tradeoff. Prop aft of the rudder gives up some responsiveness, but gains an engine aft of the sleeping quarters and a slightly more peaceful ride. Props forward of rudder means you're sleeping on your engine and all that noise and all the dirty engine maintenance happens in your bedroom.

I think the responsiveness loss is usually overstated so I'll take that layout.

No, it doesn't. Our engines are in separate watertight compartments behind the aft cabins and the props are forward of the rudders, where they belong. The engines are situated so the transmissions are aft. It leaves plenty of space in the engine rooms and there is no engine in the aft cabins. The only reason to put the props aft of the rudders is to squeeze another square meter of living space in, which is what matters most to cat manufacturers these days.

[danielamartindm]

Hi,

What a happy dilemma! I'm a believer in matching the vessel to the mission. For coastal cruising, the Bahamas, and Carib, reduced draft is a big asset that determines where you can go, how conveniently you can get there, and sometimes, your pucker factor in getting there. When all is said and done, let your wife decide. Both are great boats.

[Privleoplag]

Originally Posted by Thalas

Honestly, it's a tradeoff. Prop aft of the rudder gives up some responsiveness, but gains an engine aft of the sleeping quarters and a slightly more peaceful ride. Props forward of rudder means you're sleeping on your engine and all that noise and all the dirty engine maintenance happens in your bedroom.

I think the responsiveness loss is usually overstated so I'll take that layout.

Engines aren't under the berths even on our little Leopard 39.

[JPA Cate]

Inexorable,

Just make sure you have somewhere to berth it. That can be a headache in places where there are many cats.

Ann

[LeeV]

Late June we visited the Leopard dealer while we were in Ft. Lauderdale visiting my wife's dad and taking a week long live aboard set of courses. We saw the 40 and the 48.

Having initially been attracted to the 40, we didn't like the forward cockpit - not because of a concern of drainage, but because it made no sense. It didn't make use of the area, and was merely a pass-through. Otherwise, we liked the boat.

We then went aboard the 48 and were impressed with all the space, layout (esp the helm!), use of the forward cockpit and fit/finish, but the price was way too high for us. So we left thinking we'd cross Leopards off our list, even though the Admiral loved them.

Then we had the opportunity to speak with someone who'd just bought a 45, and they were crazy about it. So yesterday we went back to the dealer and wound up spending a couple of hours looking at and discussing a new 45. Wow! While it's more than we should probably spend, we went away planning our finances, refinancing and whatever else we need to do to make it happen!

I don't want to go over all the details; some will like the boat and some won't. All I can say is the 45 is the nicest for us and ticks off all our boxes, even off the grid items like space for an air pump for scuba tanks, etc... she's a beauty, and shouldn't be compared to the 40 - apples and oranges.

Best regards and happy hunting!

[danielamartindm]

Originally Posted by Privleoplag

Engines aren't under the berths even on our little Leopard 39.

I haven't been aboard ALL Leopard models and years, but the only Leopard I ever saw with engines under the berths (and shaft drives) was the Leopard 43.

[JohnT]

Originally Posted by danielamartindm

I haven't been aboard ALL Leopard models and years, but the only Leopard I ever saw with engines under the berths (and shaft drives) was the Leopard 43.

All the original Leopards designed by Simonis (38, 42, 43, 45 and 47 foot) had their engines under the aft bunks and shaft drive. All that changed when M&M took over the designs with the first 38/39, 40, 44 and 46 footers all with SD's. All the current output from the factory is back off the Simonis drawingboard and with SD's, as far as I am aware.

[danielamartindm]

Originally Posted by JohnT

All the original Leopards designed by Simonis (38, 42, 43, 45 and 47 foot) had their engines under the aft bunks and shaft drive. All that changed when M&M took over the designs with the first 38/39, 40, 44 and 46 footers all with SD's. All the current output from the factory is back off the Simonis drawingboard and with SD's, as far as I am aware.

I gravitated more toward the Leopard M&M designs, but would have no hesitation about buying a Simonis-V one. I have noticed that Simonis designs can have more of an aft-squatting tendency, especially under power, but I don't think it's of any functional significance. On cats, we mostly worry about burying the bows, not the sterns; but that said, if I had to be pooped, I'd prefer a M&M platform for it.

[nextis12]

Originally Posted by Thalas

Honestly, it's a tradeoff. Prop aft of the rudder gives up some responsiveness, but gains an engine aft of the sleeping quarters and a slightly more peaceful ride. Props forward of rudder means you're sleeping on your engine and all that noise and all the dirty engine maintenance happens in your bedroom.

I think the responsiveness loss is usually overstated so I'll take that layout.

Agree, regardless of rudder placement with two motors, at low speed, a cat is incredibly responsive. At higher speeds I would think the rudder in clean water would be a better situation. More living space no downside. Makes you wonder when the other manufactures will make the change.

[Factor]

You need to try a cat with motors ahead of rudders, you have the ability to walk the vessel directly sideways.