Jaguar 36 - Coming Back ?

[Nordic cat]

Originally Posted by Monica

Hi there. My husband and I are looking at a Wildcat 350 so I've been reading this closely...any way I can get some of those personal notes outlining what they didn't like about it? It's within our budget...which is rare these days...would like to find out all I can before we make a decision.

Thanks.

Have a look here: bumfuzzle nov 2004

December 2004 and on.

Use the search function here on CF and search for Bumfuzzle

Alan

[Monica]

Originally Posted by Nordic cat

Have a look here: bumfuzzle nov 2004

December 2004 and on.

Use the search function here on CF and search for Bumfuzzle

Alan

Thanks. I'm actually about halfway through reading this...I was hoping to get some additional insight to the various PM's steamboater has gotten from his post. From my initial research, it's probably not something we want to dump our $$ into, but I like to have as much knowledge behind that decision as possible (as opposed to one extremely unfortunate encounter).

[Nordic cat]

Monica, there are descriptions of some other owners with issues here:
bumfuzzle/charter cats email correspondence

Apparently more than one unhappy owner with valid problems that were not helped.

If you are considering a South African built boat, then make sure that the builder is a fully accredited member of SABBEX.

SABBEX | South African Boatbuilders Export Council

You can contact them and ask about the builder you are considering, and whether they have had any complaints.

This is not a bulletproof guarantee, but at least some vetting has been done.

I hope this helps

Alan

[SurfNRG]

Once again, a reference to Bumfuzzle rears its ugly head. And the reference from someone who owns a French built cat. Is there a link here?
Either way, I just would like to put my two cents into this matter since I am an owner of a Wildcat and have just recently put her up for sale (see forum classifieds) and feel like us Wildcat owners have received a BUM RAP.

Monica, After sailing onboard my friends catamaran in the BVI's my wife Cindy and I decided it was time to switch from our monohull (Irwin 34) to a catamaran. We looked at various cats and after a year of pretty thorough shopping we too found the Wildcat to our liking and within our budget. I was aware of the Bumfuzzle saga. I must have read the journal entries three or four times. I even spoke with Pat a couple of times via e-mail regarding his unfortunate problems which gave me insight as to what to look for when I hauled the boat out for inspection. In my opinion, something happened to his boat - either a lightning strike (as the builder suggested), they hit something while at sea or foul play happened down in the boat yard in Panama (Third World scam?). They pulled the boat out for a bottom job (in Panama) then soon after got the news. I just couldn't believe that such a renowned surveyor would have missed these large delaminations, spinning thru hull and leaking bilge prior to his purchase in Ft. Lauderdale. There were 160 Wildcats made and it's always references to Bumfuzzle. The one that Nordic Cat references to as "another unhappy Wildcat owner" found in the Bumfuzzle episodes (Jim Cash's boat) was noted by the crew of having hit something (a loud bang) that caused the damage (see entry on Feb 10, 2005) and that was after thousands of miles of being sailed. And this was notably a quick fix. In sum, the feud between Pat and Eric got pretty heated with Pat being addiment on accusing the boat builder that it was their fault. The whole thing got very ugly between the two with the builder eventually willing to pay some expenses for repairs done outside his yard, but all expenses if he bought it back to South Africa. Guess he folded a bit to Pat's threats of negative press in magazines, his popular website, this forum, etc.. It seemed a very fair offer to me - especially being that Pat wasn't the original owner, it sailed over 8,000 miles before the detection then thousands more miles to NZ. And the fact that the survey he had in Ft. Lauderdale prior to purchase was all good except for some very minor recommendations makes it all very grey. Then, I personally didn't agree with how the NZ surveyor/repair person conducted his repair. But either way, Bumfuzzle shot themselves in the foot (didn't get close to his asking price) and unfortunately it now ricochets over to other Wildcat owners that now have to explain this unfortunate experience to prospective buyers whenever they decide to sell.

All boats will have some issues. It's the nature of boats. The bottom line is if you like the boat (layout, price, etc) you want to have a survey as well as carefully inspect the boat yourself and then be prepared to deal with any issues if you decide to buy. I've been around boats all my life so it helped me while shopping around. I've met several Wildcat owners that are very happy with their boats as stated in my previoius post here. I recommended to the original poster to this thread (Steamboaterl) to check into SABBEX regarding Eric's so called Jaguar comeback. I even encouraged a Jaguar owner (a happy one I may note) to join the forum and get involved with the discussion to shed some light on his experience with buying brand new from the same builder.

Bumfuzzle is the only Wildcat that I know of that had major problems. Makes me think that if he spent the time in a DIY working on repairs himself (instead of behind the computor) or helping someone with the repair that had the knowledge that he would have come out a lot less out of pocket. And learned a lot about boats along the way. Instead, Pat was very internet savy and spent all that time broadcasting his issues, threatening the builder, even jabbing at the surveyor, oftentimes in a sarcastic manner. I don't wanna get down on Pat, he sounds like a cool free spirit and I feel guilty for not buying him a pizza and greeting him when he came in at the end of his journey like I intended. Unfortunately he didn't have a lot of experience with boats (as he readily admits) and the nautical experience he now wears will probably be a sour one. He and Ali both had a lot of courage. It's a shame that this one negative experience of the delam issue happened to them. But the fact is they made it safely around the world in their Wildcat as they intended.

But anyways, I'm tired of hearing references to Bumfuzzle. It's not fair to keep assuming that all Wildcats have problems like Bumfuzzle. It's a total BUM RAP. And Nordic Cat, I've seen issues first hand with many boats including your FP Tobago's. Are we ready to start threads on these? If so, get ready to take some over the bow cause I've seen issues, both prior to and after considering them for a possible purchase.

Bottom line is, there are awesome French cats as well as South African cats. They all have their pro's and con's. The more $$$ you spend usually means the higher quality the boat. Not everybody has half a million to spend on a boat to live out their dreams. For the money, the Wildcat is a great value for a lot of boat and has proven itself to be able to sail comfortably around the world in.

Happy Sails,

Kevin
S/V Bladerunner
SURFER Magazine/Source Interlink
http://www.surfnrg.com

P.S. And check out Gregor Tarjan's highly acclaimed book on modern day catamarans called CATAMARANS, The Complete Guide for Cruising Sailors where you'll find the Jaguar as a Noteworthy Multihull. It's the only one under 40 ft. listed in this category. And unlike most magazines, there are no advertisements to fluff a decision. Go Figure..,

[Nordic cat]

[quote=SurfNRG;208349]Once again, a reference to Bumfuzzle rears its ugly head. And the reference from someone who owns a French built cat. Is there a link here?



There is no link I can guarantee you, in fact I have just started a build of a new boat in South Africa.

My French built boat is adequate, it's not great quality, it does the job and was good value for money. I fully agree with the value/quality connection. You seldom get more than you pay for, sometimes you get lucky and get what you pay for.

I guess, the best one can do is to get a full survey, including a thermal imaging job done on any boat, to minimise suprises.

On Bumfuzzle, regardless of any other facts, the tardiness and evasiveness in the correspondance by the builder is more than enough for me.


Alan

[SurfNRG]

Originally Posted by Nordic cat

Monica, there are descriptions of some other owners with issues here:
bumfuzzle/charter cats email correspondence

Apparently more than one unhappy owner with valid problems that were not helped.

Alan

I assume you missed the reply about the Jim Cash boat where the crew reported hitting something (a loud bang) while sailing at 10 knots. Can't blame that on a poor build. And wasn't able to read in the journal about "some other owners" with issues as you stated. Just Bum, then the Jim Cash boat that made contact with something heavy while under sail.

Charter Cats did admit to not handling the Customer Service end as well as they should have. Eric seemed overwhelmed with how his company was growing, thus being caught shorthanded. On the contrary, Nicole (his daughter) helped me out quite a bit before they went out, both at the Miami Boat Show and follow up soon after. I've been able to speak with Schionning Marine, the designer of the Wildcat, about window issues and they've been very helpful so there is still some kind of support you can receive from the designer in Australia.

Congrats on the new boat. Bet you're exited. Curious as to the builder and size?

[lizmark]

My Jaguar 36 came with some quality defects and some fit and finish issues. for instance the sea strainers were mounted so high inside the engine compartment that you coulden't get the lids off. Obviously whoever installed them did not understand their function. The traveler was of an old fashion design and not up to snuff as was the main sheet too small a diameter for the loads. There are a number of imperfections in the gelcoat and non skid, but you woulden't know it without very careful inspection. the list goes on , non of the items are much by themselves but collectively it has taken a long time to set her straight. But let me repeat myself..........you will not find this much boat untill you pay nearly twice what the going price is. These boats were primarily built when the SA rand was in the toilet and they went for half what the French or Australian boats were at the time. They are spacious, luxurious and extremely good looking. they are heavily built but are decent sailors. My family spends 8 weeks a year cruising the bahamas and the fl keys. We never look forward to getting off her. She has not dissappointed us. The only design flaw is I would like more bridge deck clearance and in short chop she does slam--but it is not much of an issue 95% of the time.
as I have said before, get a through survey but chances are if it has been owned for more than a couple of years it will be one of two things- a mess that you will see immediately because the owner either did not want to take care of it or could not afford it. The second state is that of a ship shape craft where like me the owner had both skills,, willingness and money to fix the problems and make improvements where the factory cut costs. And by the way, all my complaints are in relation to one's expectations of a new car. Cruising boats are more like houses, there is always some defects and things you want to upgrade and this is not brand dependent. I intend to cruise my Jag for another 5 years and like every other boat owner will then want a bigger boat (to live on). But I am continually questioning why I would sell my boat for 200K and pay 600K for a 40+ foot Lagoon or such. I just won't be gaining that much.

[Tropic Cat]

Originally Posted by SurfNRG

And the fact that the survey he had in Ft. Lauderdale prior to purchase was all good except for some very minor recommendations makes it all very grey. ,

Kevin,

I spoke directly with the surveyor concerning that Fort Lauderdale survey. He is adament, the boat was structurely sound at that time. The look in his eyes when he explained this to me was the look of a man who is convinced he was right.

I, for one, believe him. His reputation is impeccable.

[Monica]

Thank you all...good info.

[SurfNRG]

Originally Posted by rickm505

Kevin,

I spoke directly with the surveyor concerning that Fort Lauderdale survey. He is adament, the boat was structurely sound at that time. The look in his eyes when he explained this to me was the look of a man who is convinced he was right.

I, for one, believe him. His reputation is impeccable.

Hey Rick, I also spoke with him at the Miami Boat Show in 07 and he said the same. He has surveyed over 1000 boats. Something happened.

[goshea]

Love the passionate desire to get the story straight on this one, as well as the diligence to report objectively. Nice thread.

[akmike]

I'm very pleased with my Jaguar 36 and sail it regularly offshore. There has been lots of bad press about the boat but no one brings up good writings even when they appear in multihulls magazine. Check out the article about the delivery of my cat, MiKat...

http://www.worldwideyachtdeliveries....es/jaguar.html

[Nordic cat]

I was just given a Dutch sailing magazine, September 2008 issue by a friend, who was worried for me starting a catamaran build project in Soth Africa. (Zeilen magazine, page 152. Title of the article:The boat that couldn't handle water) see www.zeilen.nl


It is written by (I was told) a very respected proffesional delivery captain who delivered a Jaguar 36 from Durban to the Caribbean.

My Dutch is not too good, but the gist of the story and the pictures,tell a story that has multiple parallels to the infamous Bumfuzzle saga.

I will ask the publisher if I can post the pictures, or see if there is a web based version of the article.

Sorry to be the harbinger of bad news, and my sympathy to those who have boats from this builder that are good boats. The evidence seems to indicate that extreme caution be used if you are considering a NEW boat from this builder.

Boats that have been around the block a few times, are probably OK, and whatever major issues that are likely to appear, should be visible after a few years.

Alan

[akmike]

Apparently your English isn’t to good either Alan. If you read the link I posted by a well known delivery captain to which I can attest, the Jaguar does indeed take big water very nicely. Anyone who knows anything about business would laugh at the bumfuzzle story. Novice buyer of a used boat calls factory from foreign county demanding payment for damage of unknown origin. Hmmmm. Love to chat all day about the virtues of the Jag but I’m goin sailing. I hope the company does come back because this is the best layed out cat I’ve ever been on. The perfect boat, no. Great boat absolutely! PS don't get too far from shore with that Tobago!

[Thanna5]

I am the owner of Chartercats Prowlercat 42 hull #4; one of the last boats completed before Eric & Co. folded several years ago. There were some issues with the boat which should have been manufacturer corrected but I ended up doing at my own cost and labor. I couldn't and wouldn't trade the vessel for anything else on the market...a huge amount of boat for the money. I hope Eric makes a successful comeback. He's a quality builder and a very nice guy. Don't forget to look up Bumfuzzle.com for another opinion.M/V Inner Dog