Bali 4.8 vs Leopard 50

[Dan2011]

Hello everyone!
I’m looking at a purchasing a cat and was looking for feedback on the Bali 4.8 by Chantier Catana vs the Robertson & Cain Leopard 50. Eventually will be used for live-aboard and extended cruising but will probably be in charter fleet for about 5 years first.
Thanks for the input!!!
Dan

[LeeV]

Originally Posted by Dan2011

Hello everyone!
I’m looking at a purchasing a cat and was looking for feedback on the Bali 4.8 by Chantier Catana vs the Robertson & Cain Leopard 50. Eventually will be used for live-aboard and extended cruising but will probably be in charter fleet for about 5 years first.
Thanks for the input!!!
Dan

I’ve only walked through each at the show, and only sailed a L40 and L45, but I’m not sure they belong in the same category for comparison.

[Dan2011]

Thanks for the feedback! Any information is better than none!
Dan

[LeeV]

Originally Posted by Dan2011

Thanks for the feedback! Any information is better than none!
Dan

Well, there wasn’t much information there; imho the L50 is a much more seaworth, sturdy vessel, capable of circumnavigation. The Bali is designed much more for chartering in the islands. Decide what you are SURE you will do with it when you remove it from charter service and go from there...

[jim King]

I owned a Leopard 44 for 4 1/2 years until Hurricane Irma took her away. No problem. got a check from the insurance company and am having a L45 build in S. Africa. Do you really need the size of the L50? I've chartered the L48 several times and the 45 even more and found them to be the perfect size. They will cost a whole lot less than the 50 and there are many more to choose from. I like the new L45 for the way they have laid out the galley. The Leopards also give you a front lounge area that is always facing the wind so you can cool off in the evenings. it is also covered so you get good sun protection. This was one of the features that had me decide on the Leopard over a Lagoon. (both the front lounge as well as the new front facing kitchen area). Keep in mind also the larger the boat the more expensive not just to purchase, but to maintain, moor, fuel, and then their is the windage. The more cabin you have above the water level, the more the wind is going to effect you both while sailing as well as at anchor. When you are running with the wind, you can actually go 2-3 knots in a ten knot breeze without sails up. Great while running with the wind, Not so much when you turn into it.
Wish I had some experience with the Bali. I have heard they will sail faster, but then is speed going to be an issue? Not so much with either Bali or Leopard. Neither will cut higher than about 60 degrees with any efficiency into the wind. But if you plan on spending most of your time at anchor and speed is no issue, I'm sure you will happy with either choice.
Cheers,
Jim

[Flagman101]

The Bali will be much more in demand in a charter fleet.
The innovative interior of the Bali offers much more space the the more conventional interior of the Leopar and this is a premium for charter boats.

For seaworthyness. I guess that Léopards have a better reputation. Is it justified….I can't say.
Sailors tend to frown on innovation

[jmschmidt]

R&C are built in South Africa. South African built boats are exempt from US import duty. This may factor into your thinking, or your negotiating skills, for these two since both approach $1 million US.

[FLLCatsailor]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

R&C are built in South Africa. South African built boats are exempt from US import duty. This may factor into your thinking, or your negotiating skills, for these two since both approach $1 million US.

I believe they are only exempt from duty when imported into the United States by the dealer when new. In the case of Moorings/Sunsail boats they are delivered offshore to the "owners" via the base system, where US duty isn't paid.

Every time I sell a boat that came out of Moorings/Sunsail that comes back to the States its a conversation I have to have with the seller... Just because a vessel is US flagged doesn't mean duty is paid.

[FLLCatsailor]

Originally Posted by Flagman101

The Bali will be much more in demand in a charter fleet.
The innovative interior of the Bali offers much more space the the more conventional interior of the Leopar and this is a premium for charter boats.

For seaworthyness. I guess that Léopards have a better reputation. Is it justified….I can't say.
Sailors tend to frown on innovation

As an owner getting a guaranteed monthly payment based on the value of the yacht one would prefer to have a less desirable boat for charter... That being said, both boats are great charter layouts...

[jmschmidt]

Originally Posted by FLLCatsailor

I believe they are only exempt from duty when imported into the United States by the dealer when new. In the case of Moorings/Sunsail boats they are delivered offshore to the "owners" via the base system, where US duty isn't paid.

Every time I sell a boat that came out of Moorings/Sunsail that comes back to the States its a conversation I have to have with the seller... Just because a vessel is US flagged doesn't mean duty is paid.

Not true FLLCatsailor. We bought a French flagged Moorings/Leopard 4700 out of the Moorings fleet in French Polynesia and took it to Honolulu where we deflagged/reflagged to US. Took the paper work to customs to pay and were told South Africa is exempt, no charge.

I also bought a Moorings 474 PowerCat out of their BVI fleet that also had not set foot in the US, again no customs duty.

It's real simple to verify these things. Those on this forum need to get the facts straight before confusing others.

[FLLCatsailor]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

Not true FLLCatsailor. We bought a French flagged Moorings/Leopard 4700 out of the Moorings fleet in French Polynesia and took it to Honolulu where we deflagged/reflagged to US. Took the paper work to customs to pay and were told South Africa is exempt, no charge.



I also bought a Moorings 474 PowerCat out of their BVI fleet that also had not set foot in the US, again no customs duty.



It's real simple to verify these things. Those on this forum need to get the facts straight before confusing others.

I’m sorry, but you may have gotten lucky, but you are incorrect. I deal with vessel importation on a very regular basis.

For those that want to verify on their own I would call a customs agent, and verify.

I could be completely off base here, but I’ve had to import quite a few R&C boats over the years. Plan on paying almost 2% in duty by the time it’s all said and done...

Not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but don’t play games with US CBP... Not worth the risk.

[jmschmidt]

Originally Posted by FLLCatsailor

I’m sorry, but you may have gotten lucky, but you are incorrect. I deal with vessel importation on a very regular basis.

For those that want to verify on their own I would call a customs agent, and verify.

I could be completely off base here, but I’ve had to import quite a few R&C boats over the years. Plan on paying almost 2% in duty by the time it’s all said and done...

Not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but don’t play games with US CBP... Not worth the risk.

There are dozens of 2nd and 3rd world countries whose manufactured products are imported duty free into the US. Years ago someone set up a yacht building company in a Central American country to build boats for the US market. Unfortunately they had a bad business plan and they went out of business.

[contrail]

I believe that at one point South African boats were duty free, but that this changed. I do know that when I first brought my Leopard 45 into the US, in 2004, both the US Customs and the broker told me me it was duty free, and it had never been to the US before.

[Cuvee]

Dan - I'm sure you've looked at the Leopard website. They now offer a very nice pricing tool - select all your options including delivery location (by sea or by freighter). Out of curiosity, I priced up the Leopard 50L (flybridge) with options that closely match my FP Saba 50 Maestro configuration. It came to $1.133M.

[bensolomon]

Check the tankage of the Leopard 45 and 50. You will see that there is no difference in water, fuel and waste tankage between the 45 and 50. Also, the 45 has a forward facing galley, which my wife really likes. I am an extensive charterer of the L50, and am looking to purchase an L45. No real life experience on a Bali.