What constitutes a a small craft warning? Why isn't there one for ELSA in NE?

[Atcowboy]

I have read before that the definition of small craft is not really defined, but I had always imagined the conditions for issuing one would be.

A couple weeks ago there were small craft advisories all along the NE coast, so Long Island Sound, Block Island Sound, Buzzards Bay, etc. IIRC I think the sustained was forecast as 15-20kts, 30kt gusts. I think it was mostly northern winds. I remember looking at the forecast and thinking 15-20kts is pretty common in these areas, especially when the 2 o'clock wind comes up, so why is there an advisory? I wasn't in an area with an advisory, I was further north into Narragansett bay where there was not an advisory and extremely comfortable just outside Potter's Cove (Prudence Island).

Now Elsa is here, and NOAA says it's about 50mph winds, moving relatively slowly, dumping rain on us. Again, deep in Narragansett the winds are predicted to be moderate at about 10-15kts, but sustained southerlies of 30kts in LIS/Buzzards bay. I had tropical storm ETA pass over me on Block Island with similar wind speeds (but mostly Northerlies) and that definitely was a small craft advisory. The only thing I can imagine that would preclude an advisory is the wave heights seem to be relatively tame, 6ft now and somehow diminishing as the wind gets stronger. I don't really believe this prediction.

So anyone have thoughts on this?

- AT

[TooCoys]

Maybe they just figure that small craft advisories are kind of a given if there's a tropical storm warning. But then, McDonalds had to print "caution, contents are hot" on the side of their coffee cups so what do I know.

[Kelkara]

The definitions are here:
https://www.weather.gov/marine/faq#14

Basically winds from 20+ to 33kts will get a small craft warning. If weather is expected to be worse that that, then you will get a gale warning, storm warning or some other warning instead ... for some areas/seasons that regularly get such conditions they do not issue small craft warnings.

Small Craft Advisory (SCA): An advisory issued by coastal and Great Lakes Weather Forecast Offices (WFO) for areas included in the Coastal Waters Forecast or Nearshore Marine Forecast (NSH) products. Thresholds governing the issuance of small craft advisories are specific to geographic areas. A Small Craft Advisory may also be issued when sea or lake ice exists that could be hazardous to small boats. There is no precise definition of a small craft. Any vessel that may be adversely affected by Small Craft Advisory criteria should be considered a small craft. Other considerations include the experience of the vessel operator, and the type, overall size, and seaworthiness of the vessel.

Eastern (ME..SC, Lake Erie, Lake Ontario) - Sustained winds or frequent gusts ranging between 25 and 33 knots (except 20 to 25 knots, lower threshold area dependent, to 33 knots for harbors, bays, etc.) and/or seas or waves 5 to 7 feet and greater, area dependent.

Central (MN..OH) - Sustained winds or frequent gusts (on the Great Lakes) between 22 and 33 knots inclusive, and/or seas or waves greater than 4 feet.

Southern (GA..TX and Caribbean) - Sustained winds of 20 to 33 knots, and/or forecast seas 7 feet or greater that are expected for more than 2 hours.

Western (WA..CA) - Sustained winds of 21 to 33 knots, and/or wave heights exceeding 10 feet (or wave steepness values exceeding local thresholds).

Alaska (AK) - Sustained winds or frequent gusts of 23 to 33 knots. A small craft advisory for rough seas may be issued for sea/wave conditions deemed locally significant, based on user needs, and should be no lower than 8 feet.

Pacific (HI, Guam, etc) - Sustained winds 25 knots or greater and seas 10 feet or greater; except in Guam and the northern Mariana Islands where it is sustained winds 22 to 33 knots and/or combined seas of 10 feet or greater.

"Frequent gusts"are typically long duration conditions (greater than 2 hours).

[deblen]

Possibly-to help the Master of the vessel to decide if his vessel is capable of safely going to sea?
Rule 6.PNG Views: 84 Size: 28.9 KB ID: 241800" style="margin: 2px" />




See "experience level of master" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_craft_advisory




Transport Canada (same as USCG) considers any vessel less than 150 tons a small craft.


Note: Small craft warnings/advisory are not just about wind & waves. They are issued for any marine hazard. ie: icing,ice,etc.

[garyfdl]

According to the NWS:

"Small craft advisories are issued when sustained winds of 21 to 33 knots (24 to 38 MPH) or seas of 7 feet or greater are expected or occuring over water.

Thing is, these advisories cover large areas. Conditions within the areas can vary as the OP mentioned. A seasoned mariner knows that even though conditions aren't bad in his immediate vicinity, things can change, in an instant, around the next point.

[Dooglas]

Small craft advisories issued by the NWS certainly are defined as noted above. More to the point - that is one level of marine wind and sea state advisory. It is displaced by higher levels of warning including gale warning, storm warning, and hurricane warning.

[Lepke]

Small craft = most boats & yachts.

Operating during a small craft advisory depends on the boat and owners experience. As a fisherman in the PNW, I usually fished during warnings. The real issue was crossing bars.

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by Lepke

Operating during a small craft advisory depends on the boat and owners experience. As a fisherman in the PNW, I usually fished during warnings. The real issue was crossing bars.

Indeed. That is likely why it is termed advisory rather than a warning. And, as I am sure you are aware, separate bar restrictions and closures are posted for individual river entrances in the Northwest - often for only periods of several hours based on sea state, tidal cycle, and river current.

[Jamme]

Originally Posted by Dooglas

Indeed. That is likely why it is termed advisory rather than a warning.

You may be interested in this proposed change in terminology: https://www.weather.gov/news/211706-...ssaging-system

[DanielI]

Originally Posted by Jamme

You may be interested in this proposed change in terminology: https://www.weather.gov/news/211706-...ssaging-system

I am interested, and thanks for the link. After reading, my conclusion is concern about their ability to come up with a clear system for communicating weather events, given their inability to clearly communicate their plans for changing their system for communicating weather events.

[phorvati]

gale or storm obviously overrides small craft. In southern New England, maybe elsewhere, it feels they are more likely to declare small craft on a summer weekend to deter the weekend boater. Summer season is so short and folks tend to "leave it all out there" during the short 3 months. Don't get me wrong when winds/seas warrant it, they do it, but there was more than one occasion where it "cleaned up" the bay traffic on a weekend with conditions nowhere as bad as small craft would have it. And traffic is exponentially worse since covid. So much appreciated when noaa scares the novices. If you know how to rely on grib files and understand currents, advisories and warnings tend to fall by the waste side anyway.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Atcowboy

I have read before that the definition of small craft is not really defined, but I had always imagined the conditions for issuing one would be.



A couple weeks ago there were small craft advisories all along the NE coast, so Long Island Sound, Block Island Sound, Buzzards Bay, etc. IIRC I think the sustained was forecast as 15-20kts, 30kt gusts. I think it was mostly northern winds. I remember looking at the forecast and thinking 15-20kts is pretty common in these areas, especially when the 2 o'clock wind comes up, so why is there an advisory? I wasn't in an area with an advisory, I was further north into Narragansett bay where there was not an advisory and extremely comfortable just outside Potter's Cove (Prudence Island).



Now Elsa is here, and NOAA says it's about 50mph winds, moving relatively slowly, dumping rain on us. Again, deep in Narragansett the winds are predicted to be moderate at about 10-15kts, but sustained southerlies of 30kts in LIS/Buzzards bay. I had tropical storm ETA pass over me on Block Island with similar wind speeds (but mostly Northerlies) and that definitely was a small craft advisory. The only thing I can imagine that would preclude an advisory is the wave heights seem to be relatively tame, 6ft now and somehow diminishing as the wind gets stronger. I don't really believe this prediction.



So anyone have thoughts on this?



- AT

Good question !

It is the conditions that dictate a small craft warning rather than just wind strength.

Big tides, strong currents against wind, approaching offshore sea states and the topography as it effects risk exposure (Anabatic/Katabatic winds) all play their part